China ships stay in Japan waters near Senkakus for record time

You know what to do Japan! Timer to put a permanent presence on the islands because we all know China will do it if you don't!

And do the Japanese go to defend their territory?

Watch and do nothing

Initially, a total of four Chinese vessels entered Japanese waters near the Senkakus in succession from around 11:10 a.m. on Thursday, according to the coast guard.

That's happened after Japanese official went to China? So what is the real progress of that meeting?

https://japantoday.com/category/politics/update1-hayashi-meets-with-china's-qin-seeks-release-of-japanese-national

What’s the point of increasing defense spending if the government has no will to defend its territory ?At least give those Chinese ships warning shots.

China and Japan are like two naughty children fighting over possession a toy. Why fight? Why not play? Like good children?

Do something or stop moaning about it

80 hours and 36 minutes...and Japan's SDF did nothing. That little tidbit is missing from the story.

The Japan Coast Guard needs to develop a class of helicopter patrol ship built specifically to shoulder and even ram Chinese Coast Guard ships that won't leave Japanese territorial waters. Tough double hulled ships with big ribs at the waterline with a bit of tumblehome so the deck railings are inboard of that rib so the Japanese ship can bump the sides of the Chinese ship. The bow should be heavily reinforced for ramming. They also need high pressure monitors (water nozzles like those used on fire boats) that are controlled from inside and spray something that is both slimy and truly bad smelling on the offending ship. Most important, never let a Chinese ship enter Japan's water without challenging them, and if necessary bumping them.

I would think maritime accidents could happen with this type of bad behaviour by China. There may be underwater hazards that China is not aware of --seeing how these are NOT their territorial waters and may not know this. Also, this area used to be an area for bombing practice by the U.S. Forces and the firing ranges could be activated again with Bilateral agreement between US & Japan Governments.

And they wonder why Japan wants missiles to hit china.

Historically they are Chinese. So…

No problem, as they run out of energy, food, water, health, motivation, moral etc. after a certain timespan. But if they ever should install a supply chain, then it’s of course time to act immediately, strict and harsh.

When Deng Xiaoping visited Japan in 1978 to celebrate the opening of diplomatic relations between the two countries he simply said that issues like this should be left to future, smarter generations. Apparently he overestimated future generations' wisdom and ability to chart a peaceful path.

China should stay out of Japanese waters, but as these islands are only 120 nautical miles from Taiwan, there is no surprise that Chinese or Taiwanese vessels might be spotted 'near' the islands.

And what do the people complaining about the Japanese not "doing anything" expect? You want them to start a shooting war?

They fail to acknowledge that the Japanese DID do something, they patrolled their waters and kept watch on the movements of the Chinese ships.

What else do you expect?

@SanjinosebleedToday 06:43 am JST

Completely agree with your post. Japan complains now, but does not take the necessary action of putting a small military outpost in the islands with anti ship and anti air missiles. Japan will complain even louder when China moves to do that first, but they will again do nothing but complain.

@Desert TortoiseToday 08:59 am JST

Another sensible idea for Japan to do something constructive to deter China's constant challenge to Japans hold over these islands. The only problem is whatever ships Japan builds, China can copy and build more of in fairly quick time. A base on the islands able to take appropriate action if needed is the most solid action to show sovereignty over the Senkaku's.

Japanese ships sailing around Diaoyu Island?

Increasingly Japan sounds like a 'paper lion' and it roars publicly in the media with nothing to back it up. China will continue to ignore Japan's diplomatic protests and will do what it wants. If China decides to land on the Senkaku's with troops, what will Japan do? Oh, probably file another protest through the foreign ministry and another at the United Nations etc, etc, etc.

The Japan Coast Guard needs to develop a class of helicopter patrol ship built specifically to shoulder and even ram Chinese Coast Guard ships that won't leave Japanese territorial waters. Tough double hulled ships with big ribs at the waterline with a bit of tumblehome so the deck railings are inboard of that rib so the Japanese ship can bump the sides of the Chinese ship. The bow should be heavily reinforced for ramming. They also need high pressure monitors (water nozzles like those used on fire boats) that are controlled from inside and spray something that is both slimy and truly bad smelling on the offending ship. Most important, never let a Chinese ship enter Japan's water without challenging them, and if necessary bumping them.

Why the play acting?

Warn them to get out and if there is no response then sink them!

@Desert TortoiseToday 08:59 am JST

Not a game they can win, because China simply has more budget plus can build with less cost. Thus their recent ships are simply ... bigger. The sheer size of the ship has a strong influence on the outcome of any ramming contest.

Its near-daily aggressive actions toward virtually China only serve to bring these other countries together to bully it. Hence, we have the Quad, AUKUS, CPTPP, export bans and so on.

If the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands are China's sovereign territories as some poster claims, China coast guard ships have every right to patrol the relevant waters. But is this claim by this poster well-founded historically? China would be embarrassed deeply and ashamed of laying a claim to a find that is not China's lost article at all. 

Here's why I think so.　                                                           

Let me ask a question for starters. Why are these barren islands called "Senkakus" in Japan and "Diaoyudaos" in China?

Common nouns in a language are very ad hoc in naming objects. There's no reason why things are called as they are in languages. However, proper nouns are different from common nouns in that there's always some reasons behind -- why they are called by such and such names.

Kubajima (久場島）or Huangwei Yu （黄尾鱮）in Chinese in the Senkaku/Diaoyudao Islands was an important landmark for ancient Ryukyu (Okinawa) seamen and traders navigating on the Ryukyu-Fuchuan sea lane. These seafarers, who were thoroughly familiar with the Senkaku waters more than anyone else, called this landmark "Kubajima" because, according to one theory, the island was covered full with “kuba” (or Areca) palms. But I think it was called by that name because the island's shape is quite similar to that of another island called Kubajima, that is located about 40 km west of Naha, Okinawa Island, on the same sea lane. When necessary, the former was called "Iigun Kubajima" to distinguish it from the latter.

 Wasn't the Chinese "Huangmao (Yu)" （黄毛）as recorded by Quin royal emissary Chen Kwan （陳侃, 1534）and "Huangwei (Yu)"（黄尾）as recorded later, meaning "yellow fur" for the former and "yellow tail" for the latter, a homophonic translation of Kuba(jima)? Note that the k-sound of Japanese (and Ryukyuan) ordinarily corresponds to the h-sound in Chinese. For example, 上海, 海宝, 海南島, (中国)海警, 漢, 河南, 黄河, 中華, 華為, etc., in all of which the characters with the k-sound in Japanese are pronounced with the h-sound in Chinese. So, it's very likely that Chinese "Huanmao"(黄毛）was a homophonic translation of Ryukyuan "kuba". Or did the ancient Chinese think the island was inhabited by mythic animals with yellow tails or fur and so they called it as such? 

The easternmost island in the island chain is officially called Taishojima in Japan, but historically it used to be called Kumi-Akajima by Ryukyu seamen. Here, too, we see the same mechanism of nomenclature as in the case of Kubajima. There's an island called Akajima in the Kerama Islands whereby Kumi-Akajima in the Senkakus must have been named after this with Kumi added to differentiate it from the original.

Chen Kwan recorded this island as Chiwei Yu (赤尾鱮), meaning "red-tailed island." Does it mean the Chinese believed the island was inhabited by animals with red tails? Isn't it a semantic conversion of what Ryukyu seamen called Kumi Akajima (久米阿嘉島）, which could mean "Kume Red Island" in folk etymology?

The name "Senkaku" comes from English "Pinnacle Islands." The British ship, HMS Samarang, made a port at Ishigaki Island three times and on its second port calling in May, 1845, it launched out upon an exploration of the hitherto unheard-of island group which the islanders called Iigunjima. Approaching the islands northward from Ishigaki Island on May 8, they must have been struck with the similarity of the first approaching island to Bartolome Island in the Galapagos, which is famous for its Pinnacle Rock, thus calling the island group Pinnacle Islands. The Japanese name "Senkaku" was coined after this by a natural history teacher named Hisashi Kuroiwa, in 1900, who hailed from Kochi Prefecture in Shikoku and taught at Okinawa Normal School.

The Meiji government called the largest island in the chain "Uotsuri-jma", which is an apparent translation from the Chinese "Diaoyudao". It also called the adjacent islands lying southeast of it "Kita Kojima" (North Islet) and "Minami Kojima" (South Islet) respectively. The Chinese names "Bei Xiaodao" and "Nan Xiaodao" definitely come from these Japanese names.

Why did the Chinese call the largest island Diaoyudao meaning "fishing island"? Did unworldly men, as often depicted in Chinese drawings, live there and spent days angling for fish? Or have Chinese fishermen come here to engage in blue-water fishing since ancient times? Note, however, that blue-water fishing started only recently with the development of modern refrigeration technology.

Isn't "Diaoyudao" a semantic conversion of what a Chinese royal mission to Ryukyu were explained to by Ryukyu seamen navigating together aboard the same tributary ship? Chen Kwan, must have thought of Diaoyuchen (釣魚城) at Chongqin when he translated the vernacular "IIigunjima" into Chinese.

Note that Chinese royal envoys came to Ryukyu Kingdom 25 times during the period from 1373 to 1866. During the same period, Ryukyu seamen, traders and the Ryukyu King's appreciatory envoys sailed to China more than 200 times.

All these linguistic and historical facts must be taken into consideration before anyone says anything definite about sovereignty over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands.

Conclusion: Can Beijing confidently claim the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands have been China's sovereign territory historically whereby it can send to the Senkaku/Diaoyu waters its coast guard ships with deck cannons, justifying its action by saying that it's doing so to defend its sovereign territory?

Time for some submarine drills in Japanese waters…Carry On…Garf

AsTime GoesOnToday  03:42 pm JST

If China decides to land on the Senkaku's with troops, what will Japan do? 

Article 5 of the US JPN Mutual Defense Treaty would ne invoked and Chins would have started a war with not just Japan but the United States as well.

"The United States restated its unwavering support for Japan’s defense under the U.S.-Japan Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security, using its full range of capabilities, including nuclear. It also reaffirmed the fact that Article V of the Treaty applies to the Senkaku Islands. Together, we oppose any unilateral action that seeks to undermine Japan’s administration of the Senkaku Islands."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/04/16/u-s-japan-joint-leaders-statement-u-s-japan-global-partnership-for-a-new-era/

China should get Russia to work out a deal with the Northern territories and return some if not all the islands. Russia can supply energy and Japan can help develop Eastern Russia. The potential is endless. It’s a draw and remains to be if Japan just keeps claiming, “it’s ours” incessantly.

In the same way as Russia and China settled and have more than 2700 projects going on in Siberia and Eastern Russia, Japan and China should explore and share the resources in the Senkaku’s. However they both are stuck in their claims and need a third party move forward.

Russia → Japan → China → Russia. Trades between two NBA teams don’t work but when you add a third party the deal takes on a new dimension. What can Russia get from China for giving up the Northern territories? Japan gets the Northern territories back and shares in the resources in the Senkaku’s with China.

China is playing their low-hassle game. Push a little, get away with it. Push a little more 6 months later, get away with it. Do that over and over over 10 yrs until you land troops and build structures on the islands. Now, removing them is an act of war caused by Japan.

As Barney Fife says, "Nip it in the bud". Do it now when it is a small thing, not later.

@Sanjinosebleed

Timer to put a permanent presence on the islands because we all know China will do it if you don't!

Are you talking about mountain goats? Do you know anything about the geography of those tiny islands?

In the same way as Russia and China settled and have more than 2700 projects going on in Siberia and Eastern Russia, Japan and China should explore and share the resources in the Senkaku’s. However they both are stuck in their claims and need a third party move forward.

Kind of a moot point when China went ahead and is stealing the gas anyways, https://www.offshore-technology.com/features/drillships-warships-increasing-tensions-east-china-sea/ .

And what do the people complaining about the Japanese not "doing anything" expect? You want them to start a shooting war?

Build a lighthouse, doghouse, anything.

Build a lighthouse, doghouse, anything.

And that will achieve ... ?

Are you talking about mountain goats? Do you know anything about the geography of those tiny islands?

And do you know anything of the history of the island yourself? No need to inhabit them all, just one, and FYI it was once in the not all too distant past.

And that will achieve ... ?

Never heard of possession is 9/10ths before have you?

Kind of a moot point when China went ahead and is stealing the gas anyways, 

These are interesting points from the article which you cited:

*Chinese oil companies established a production platform at the Chunxiao gas field near the Japanese maritime border.

*Reigniting previous area disputes that arose in 2004 when a Chinese drilling platform was discovered by Japanese authorities just 5km away from the proposed boundary.”

*Last year, China installed a further three jack-up rigs in the area – Haiyang Shiyou 942, Kantan Qihao, and Kaixuan Yihao – and now operates 14 wellhead platforms near the median line.

*“The production represents just 1% of CNOOC’s total production and the East China Sea area accounts for 2.8% of CNOOC’s total reserves for 2017. To date, no production has been reported from fields on the Japanese side of the border.”

*Commenting on the move in 2017, Japanese chief cabinet secretary Yoshihide Suga said in a news conference said that “it is extremely regrettable that China continues its unilateral development in the sea area in a situation where the maritime boundary between Japan and China has not been fixed in the East China Sea.”

I’m not sure why you think that is stealing.

Not a game they can win, because China simply has more budget plus can build with less cost. Thus their recent ships are simply ... bigger. The sheer size of the ship has a strong influence on the outcome of any ramming contest.

Do you remember the "Cod War" between UK and Iceland? Ramming larger Royal Navy warships seemed to work pretty well for the Iceland Coast Guard. You do that instead of firing ordnance at them. Some bent sheet metal, maybe a few leaks and the decks covered in smelly slime, some bruises maybe but nobody killed. It's like an icebreaker. You put enough power in the Japanese ship and enough steel in that rib and in the bow and you can leave some pretty big dents in a larger ship. Short of firing weapons at you the Chinese may not want to have their ships coming back all dented up looking like a golf ball.

My intention to post an opinion above was not to prove the Senkakus/Diaoyus belonged to Ryukyu Kingdom. Rather, it was to prove Beijing's confident claim to these islands has no justified historical ground.

They could share the island in a groundbreaking sign of goodwill and friendship

Japan should have built a research station or something there years ago. Best do that now with any other islands like the Senkaku Islands. China is hungry.

They could share the island in a groundbreaking sign of goodwill and friendship

Laughable. China never shares. Ever. They are all about control. They want the entirety of the South China Sea all for themselves, put police stations in other nations, harass Chinese abroad and you think they would share an island with Japan? In what parallel universe is this possible? Certainly not the universe we inhabit.