Hospital doctors walk out in UK health service's biggest ever strike

The NHS was founded in 1948 for the people of Britain to get healthcare free at the point of service.

It is no longer fit for purpose in the vastly changed Britain of 2023, with thousands of people using it annually without any right to do so, and then not paying up.

Some form of co-pay must be introduced. I think the Japanese system of 30% at the point of service and 70% covered by the government from your taxes works well. The standard of doctors in Japan may be diabolical, but the system works well. I can get an MRI here within a few days. On the NHS? You're looking at months of waiting!

Some form of co-pay must be introduced. I think the Japanese system of 30% at the point of service and 70% covered by the government from your taxes works well. 

In Australia its 2% of your annual salary, which is tax deductible. basically its insurance, if you get cancer or need expensive surgery then you wont go bankrupt or die because you cant afford it.

In Australia its 2% of your annual salary, which is tax deductible. basically its insurance, if you get cancer or need expensive surgery then you wont go bankrupt or die because you cant afford it.

In the UK, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical expenses. You just have to worry about dying in the first place because your cancer has now progressed too far while waiting six months for an MRI.

why are UK doctors complaining?

ask Rishi why did he sent your money to UA junta instead of you...

be poor but "proud at your values"!

This action defies the hyypocratic oath they swore to become doctors in the first place

Various oaths are sworn by graduating doctors around UK universities, but none use the original Hippocratic oath. In general, they swear to care for their patients. And I think one issue in providing care is the number of doctors available. If the pay is not attractive, we are unlikely to see enough doctors and other medical staff.

According to World Bank data the UK spends 12% of its gdp on health care. This is behind the US (18%), about the same as France and Germany, and more than Australia (10%) and other European countries. The problem is clearlly not the amount of resources put into health care (unless the UK is a fundamentally unhealthily place than othe countries) but how the system uses those resources. I know from experience that I could see a gp in Australia within an hour of calling the practice and that I could get a complete health scan without charge. I also know that in the UK I could join at queue at 8am to try and get an appointment for a gp and, if my need was not urgent enough, be rejected by the receptionist. A health scan in the UK? Not a chance since preventative medicine does not go beyond breast and bowel scans. The NHS is in fundamental difficulties as it fails to deliver accessible quality care. The doctors are led by the most extreme left-wing union in the UK who want to hold the population to ransom. The time has arrived for fundamental reform.

The NHS has since its beginning been in the hands of conservative governments for more years than labour ones.

The NHS has since its beginning been in the hands of conservative governments for more years than labour ones.

Can you read? Gareth said "union", not "government".

According to World Bank data the UK spends 12% of its gdp on health care.

These numbers can be difficult to interpret. For example, if a country's GDP is falling relative to another country, the same GDP spending ratio can mean a smaller spending on health care. Another statistic might be spending per person. For example, in 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare while France spent £3,737 and Germany spent £4,432.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

unless the UK is a fundamentally unhealthily place than other countries

Well, according to this recent Times article, 10,896 NHS patients — including 312 children — were hospitalised with malnutrition in England from 2022 to April 2023. Also, "Victorian" diseases such as rickets and scurvy are on the rise.

Dr. Clare Gerada, president of the Royal College of GPs said, "“If this is indicative of the health of our most vulnerable, then it is shocking.”

“The poorest people in this country are poorer than any other counterparts in Europe . . . and it’s poor diet. The most common reason a child under five has a general anaesthetic now is for dental care, so that’s a sign of malnutrition. This isn’t about the health system, it’s about the social determinants of ill health, indicative of the last 15 years of austerity.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-health-commission-thousands-of-people-admitted-to-hospital-suffering-from-malnutrition-n23hqgzjr

So, the poorest people in the UK are the poorest people in Europe. The whole article is a damning indictment of the appalling state of the public health in the UK after 15 years of Tory austerity.

How does UK health spending compare across Europe over the past decade?

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decade

Healthcare costs seem to focus on expectations.

One area that could improve current healthcare expenditure is management reform and a restructuring of the trust system.

An introduction to the NHS

https://www.england.nhs.uk/get-involved/nhs/

Hospital doctors in England will on Thursday stage the biggest walkout in the history of the UK's state-funded National Health Service, prompting fears for patient safety.

This is not the answer the money is simply not available.

Rishi Sunak when chancellor spent taxpayer money without a clear policy on expenditure and value for money.

Billions were embezzled, as much again on PPE, and a system of track and trace at cost of £37bn funding that ultimately failed its own objectives.

Test and Trace update

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmpubacc/182/report.html

Since 1948, the government has been the paymaster of the NHS. Due to a lack of investments by conservative governments, the healthcare system is broken. People will continue to suffer.

Recently, there was a media story and photos of a huge field full of dumped PPE overordered during the covid. What a waste.

Honestly I cannot find a single positive strength to Rishi Sunak leadership, either style or substance.

Rishi Sunak simply does not inspire confidences.

On the international stage at the NATO summit he, sorry, appeared like a cross between Rodney Trotter and Frank Spencer.

Like a hapless low key project manager, yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.

A bell boy book end.

The NHS staff will be fully aware of his short comings.

That's before we get to Jeremy Hunt......

Can anybody name off the top of their head the government health sec, I struggled.

People stub a toe, have a cold, need a chat because they're feeling down, these soak up the resources needed by those who require medical support.

Fees need to be charged, to ration the fixed amount of care.

A story on the NHS. I wonder what rkl has to say about it.

Gareth Miles has nailed it with his comments. Here I can book an appointment with my doctor and see him the same day (book early of course). In the UK you can wait weeks, by which time you have recovered or died

Alfie, if you read that rag, you are misinformed.

Well, according to this recent Times article

Alfie, if you read that rag, you are misinformed.

No, I don't usually read anything owned by Mr. Murdoch. That article just popped up in something I was reading on twitter - I was stunned to discover just how bad the public health is in the UK for so many people now.

Yes indeed, S-O-S the UK, not only the NHS but the entire nation, from Train drivers and Transportation, to Schools, to Civil Servants and now the NHS.

The Tories are in the process of trying to privatise certain parts of the NHS or at least tendering off bits to private firms for a set number of years with a set budget for them to work with. Some of them are then doing the bare minimum so they can maximise the profit from that budget by the time the retender is due.

Modern economic theory is to just go to the keyboard, push a key and print money.

Pay the healthcare workers what they want to keep them from leaving, lower standards for medical schools to get more people in the pipeline of a now more lucrative career, create a Ministry of Medical Appointments and hire many people to take appointments by phone, give government contracts for people to study and build a central computer system, then more contracts to fix the system.

Then let the next generation figure out what to do about the debt.

Put it all on a credit card and pay the minimum amount, then get more credit cards.

Total Basket Case.

Layers and layers of management paying themselves bonuses for meeting artificial targets.

100s of HR staff on highly paid, Diversity and Inclusion jobs.

The money is not going to patient care, it is going to feed the bureaucracy.

How about all the poor in the UK, how are they supposed to pay 30% of cost? You should the queues for the food bank here, so much poverty.

How about all the poor in the UK, how are they supposed to pay 30% of cost? You should the queues for the food bank here, so much poverty.

By foregoing their iPhone 14, satellite TV, fags, Gregg’s and other wastes of their money.

Around one in five of the UK population (20%) were in poverty in 2020/21 - that's 13.4 million people. Of these,: 7.9 million were working-age adults. 3.9 million were children.

How about all the poor in the UK, how are they supposed to pay 30% of cost? You should the queues for the food bank here, so much poverty.

By foregoing their iPhone 14, satellite TV, fags, Gregg’s and other wastes of their money

Looks like the Daily Mail’s letters page has come alive again.

Very popular with North American rightwingers.

So there is no need for me to apologize or for anyone to get all hoity toity perfectionism/ OCD

Calm down. My original post mentioned that most sworn oaths (including the original Hippocratic one) stress a care for patients, and that an important factor of care is the availability of doctors and other staff. To me, decent wages are an important factor. Or should you and I just turn up at the hospitals and volunteer our services?

Brexit took Sterling down 25%, plus another 10% in collateral damage, creating an inflationary spiral. Increasing interest rates won't stop it, it will add fuel to the flames, spreading the damage. It's not going to improve, and increasing wages rather than accepting the UK's one-third poorer state will worsen things. Retirees are moving abroad because places like Spain are cheaper. Professionals are emigrating for better pay and conditions. Tech folk will need to move abroad when the current legislation going through parliament cuts the UK Brexinet off from international web services. Migrants are generally banned, but those who could come are choosing places with better pay and less racism. Skilled UK labour could also do better abroad. The UK industrialised first and will be the first G7 country to undevelop courtesy of the most incompetent decade of governance in UK history.

Third world UK..

Good on them.

TokyoLivingToday  05:01 am JST

Third world UK..

You keep calling countries third world when you hero China will likely never escape middle income status. Pretty ironic.

Increasing interest rates won't stop it, it will add fuel to the flames, spreading the damage.

The Bank of England said its models show that nearly a million mortgage holders across the UK will see monthly repayment increases of £500 or more in the coming months - or £6,000 a year. Homelessness, poverty, malnutrition and excess deaths will all increase. Bleak.

I was stunned to discover just how bad the public health is in the UK for so many people now.

I'd agree with that. The reason? The mentality that it doesn't matter what the individual does, the NHS will fix it... free of charge. Well it isn't free, and many will not take personal responsibility. Obesity is a real problem, no worries, the NHS will save my life. That's what a welfare state achieves

Let me see if I have this straight.

The UK government decided to send nearly £50million last year in "foreign aid" to China, but can't give healthcare workers any more money.

Absolutely incredible.

Maybe it's time for Brits to take back control of their country.

Doctors/teachers/nurses/military have been offered a 6% wage increase.

Maybe it's time for Brits to take back control of their country.

Was that not the cry during the Brexit referendum? We might need to make clear what "control" makes before making further changes.

Was that not the cry during the Brexit referendum? We might need to make clear what "control" makes before making further changes.

As an outsider, I recall that the selling point of Brexit was that it would funnel billions into the NHS, fixing up most of the problems. Can't they just pay the doctors out of the additional money that has been funneled into the NHS after Brexit?