Ukraine wins G7 security pledges but NATO membership remains elusive

When Ukraine cuts the land bridge, the NATO timeline will probably come the next day. It's understandable that it would work like that.

A joint declaration issued by the G7 lays the groundwork for each nation to negotiate agreements to help Ukraine bolster its military over the long term. Zelenskyy described the initiative as a bridge toward eventual NATO membership and a deterrent against Russia.

"We will not waver,” Biden vowed after the summit in Lithuania ended. “I mean that. Our commitment to Ukraine will not weaken. We will stand for freedom today, tomorrow and for as long as it takes.”

This is exactly what Putin did not want to hear. It means that support from the G7 countries will be for years, not months. Putin's economy is wavering, his resources are waning and the resolve of the troops is low. He cannot afford to have this go on for years.

This is exactly what Putin did not want to hear. It means that support from the G7 countries will be for years, not months. Putin's economy is wavering, his resources are waning and the resolve of the troops is low. He cannot afford to have this go on for years.

I have a feeling that some of our posters will be along soon and be very, very angry about this, and tell us about how they are very, very angry.

War War War and they push more and more for it and more military spending while those lacking an understanding of what’s going on relish it. All the time many people are being maimed and killed

A ceasefire is needed pronto to stop this! The ridiculous offensive that has already been a failure and killed thousands will continue indefinitely unless both sides start being realistic.

Sit down have some tea and biscuits and talk like men, being tough is meeting face to face not miles away or on TV.

Ukraine will join NATO but not during the war. On this point, Putin has lost with two new NATO members and a third on the horizon.

Ukraine isn't making a war. It's defending itself.

to help Ukraine bolster its military over the long term

It's a shame that Ukraine will need to bolster its military over the long term, but with warmongering Russia, desiring to expand its vast territory -for the clory of Putin and his fellow Kremlin fascists so close geographically, Ukraine will probably need to continue strengthening its defense systems for generations to come.

Maybe it would help if you explained "what's going on" so we all understand.

falseflagsteve

War War War and they push more and more for it and more military spending while those lacking an understanding of what’s going on relish it.

In essence, Western countries are willing to keep sending weapons to help Ukraine do the job that NATO was designed to do — hold the line against a Russian invasion — but not allow Ukraine to join its ranks and benefit from its security during the war.

As expected

A ceasefire is needed pronto to stop this! The ridiculous offensive that has already been a failure and killed thousands will continue indefinitely unless both sides start being realistic.

The reality is that if Russia stops fighting, the war is over.

If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine is over.

The only way this ends is Russia leaves Ukraine willingly, or are forced to.

This issue is black and white ! The only country on the planet earth that wanted to invade a neighbor was Russia .!. A “cease fire?” Sure … Putin needs to pull his troops (some are children) out of Ukraine. Unfortunately, this illegal invasion will only end with Putins death .!. He made the greatest mistake since Japan hit Pearl Harbor! Putin has set Russia back for decades to come .!. I still find in incomprehensible that there are a few ( a tiny uneducated fraction) of those that want to blame Zelenskyy for not “ending the war.” This is not a war ! Seriously… if I invaded your house, what would you be willing to let me keep to get me to leave ???

falseflagsteve

Same with this beastly war, it didn’t seat out of the blue with the vile Mr Putin getting out of bed and deciding to cause this conflict.

Actually, that is how it started. Putin lied about some of his pretexts to war, but make no mistake, this is Putin's imperialist war against Ukraine.

Ukraine won’t become a NATO member as that would start a nuclear war…

Ukraine won’t become a NATO member as that would start a nuclear war…

Or they will, and it won't.

Ukraine will become a NATO member and there won't be any nuclear war.

kurisupisu

Ukraine won’t become a NATO member as that would start a nuclear war…

That's why this agreement has been made. It confers all the support pf being a NATO member except article 5. What this means is that Putin is in for a long war, because arms will continue to flow into Ukraine for years if required.

Mini-me and his toadies on tv (and JT) can rant about “nuclear decisions” all they want if that allows them to salve their bruised egos. That’s not going to happen because they know what happens to Russia if we go down that path.

Nope.

Ukraine is going to be a member of NATO.

Due to, as a direct result of) the midget from Moscow’s “genius”, NATO will border Russia from the Arctic to the Black Sea. The Baltic and Black Seas become NATO lakes where their respective Russian “fleets” become renters and NATO the “land (sea) lord”.

All part of the Moscow master plan to divide NATO, eh?

All part of the Moscow master plan to divide NATO, eh?

The only reason it's not the biggest screw-up of 2023, is that it happened in 2022. Oh, and Twitter.

Ukraine being a full member of NATO would involve foreign troops in Ukraine which Russia would not tolerate

That is the existential threat that Putin has spoken of on more than one occasion.

And anyone thinking that Ukraine is blameless for the Russian invasion definitely needs to do more research on the subject

kurisupisu

Ukraine being a full member of NATO would involve foreign troops in Ukraine which Russia would not tolerate

So? There are many things that Putin hasn't been able to tolerate, but eventually he has.

That is the existential threat that Putin has spoken of on more than one occasion.

Only in as much as he started a foolish war that he can't win.

And anyone thinking that Ukraine is blameless for the Russian invasion definitely needs to do more research on the subject

I've done more research and come to the same conclusion that they are blameless. Enlighten us.

Ukraine being a full member of NATO would involve foreign troops in Ukraine which Russia would not tolerate

No, this is at minimum disinformation. I won’t go so far as to say it’s a lie because innocent ignorance remains a possibility.

There will be no permanent basing of partner troops in Finland and it’s already a NATO member.

To the best of my knowledge, no nuclear war as of yet.

NATO members receive article 5 guarantees of collective self-defense. Ukraine will as well.

Sorry mini-me (and his fan boos).

114 billion on a lost cause and no victory in sight,like Iraq and Afghanistan

95-1 senate vote to ratify Finland and Sweden. The vote to ratify Ukraine is not in doubt.

It’s not the Goober GQP House after all.

Whom is delusional?

EFD, Ukraine will not be ratified

read between lines

UA is needed as proxy war field against Russia,NATO and EU plus Japan will supply guns,money,media propaganda.UA will need to fight until its last soldier.

UA will be not member of NATO as this will mean red line for Russia and start of WW3,NATO knows that so they gave just fake promises to UA.

NATO will be not officially involved in conflict against Russia and will not declare war on Russia as well.NATO countries may supply mercenaries but not official soldiers.

it seems that west did not learn a simple thing last few months and lives in world of own lies.

there is zero chance that UA may defeat and win over Russia in any case.costs for this extension of conflict for UA will be even more horrible.

this conflict have no military solution.

this conflict have to be stopped now.ceasefire,serious peace negotiations.

read between lines

"Read between the lines" he says, parroting Putin's Russian propaganda as if Russia isn't 100% at fault for this war.

I like Zelensky’s voice. He sounds like Richard Dreyfus in the film “Moon Over Parador”.

Yrral

114 billion on a lost cause

Oh, you've seen nothing yet. This agreement says that G7 will fund Ukraine for years to come.

and no victory in sight,like Iraq and Afghanistan

Yes! Like Iraq and Afghanistan, Russia's imperialistic invasion will result in no victory, and then they will withdraw.

and no victory in sight,like Iraq and Afghanistan

That's unfortunate. Russia could just leave though, and the war would be over, so it's not like Ukraine is choosing to prolong the war. Ukraine is choosing to prolong the existence of their nation, people and culture from a literal foreign invader. Ukraine deserves all the support they need, even if this war takes another 10 years.

Ukraine is going to be in NATO, the Russians are leaving, and no amount of wishing (from the Russian embassy) is going to change that.

The elephant in the room is this: Ukraine cannot win militarily and will have to cede territory (the four oblasts in their entirety plus Crimea and maybe a few more and perhaps a buffer zone or more) to settle the conflict and its borders.

But Kyiv will not agree to this - so the conflict will roll on and joining NATO anytime soon is a moot point.

But that logic ignores that even bigger 800-pound gorilla in the room: Russia will not allow NATO encroachment on their border in such a large country. The country will be neutral, wrecked into a basketcase and/or dismembered.

That is one of the key goals of the SMO.

In essence, we are debating something that will never happen.

He sure changed his tone once the US and UK had enough and said he better stop the criticism and show done gratitude.

damage already done though.

The elephant in the room is this: Ukraine cannot win militarily and will have to cede territory

Sure they can.

Putin and the Russian propaganda coup want people to think they can't and lose hope though.

Are you intentionally pushing Russian propaganda, or is it just coincidence?

But that logic ignores that even bigger 800-pound gorilla in the room: Russia will not allow NATO encroachment on their border

Ohhhh, because one's point is extra-valid when one uses bold face.

Russia doesn't get to dictate NATO membership nor Ukrainian sovereignty. The last 15 months have more than proven that.

Ukraine is going to be in NATO. The only topic of negotiation is the timing.

The Turkish president has been seeking advanced American fighter jets and a path toward membership in the European Union. The White House has expressed support for both, but has insisted the issues were not related to Sweden’s membership in NATO.

no serious person would believe this. turkey got what they wanted out of Biden and in return dropped their opposition.

Ukraine's future membership was the most divisive and emotionally charged issue at this year's summit. In essence, Western countries are willing to keep sending weapons to help Ukraine do the job that NATO was designed to do — hold the line against a Russian invasion — but not allow Ukraine to join its ranks and benefit from its security during the war.

> “We have to stay outside of this war but be able to support Ukraine. We managed that very delicate balancing act for the last 17 months. It’s to the benefit of everyone that we maintain that balancing act,” Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo said.

Doesn't seem like they want Ukraine in NATO

Pretending that Crimea (in which 98% of Russian speakers) will ever return to Kyiv is just delusional - even more so by military conquest.

The south-east will face ethnic cleansing should they be conquered by the UAF - that is why the LPR/DPR militia forces are fighting with uncommon reserve and vigour as they are in quite literally fighting for their lives if nor their self-determination and homeland (another story which the western media again is slow to get to, is the "Wager mutiny" was apparently aggravated by an ongoing effort to incorporate these loose volunteer groups, active in the formerly Ukrainian Donbass for years already, into Russia’s military structure). Donetsk city particularly hates the Kyiv regime with a passion.

The UAF counter offensive is a non-event and, on the contrary, has almost certainly hurt Kyiv. Not one defensive line has been breached and the Loss exchange ratio is going pear-shaped.

Clearly this will be a frozen conflict for decades to come.

Game, set and match: Moscow.

Zelenskyy=puppet on a string

Pretending that Crimea (in which 98% of Russian speakers) will ever return to Kyiv is just delusional - even more so by military conquest.

After the foreign invaders have been evicted, the Crimeans can decide for themselves democratically what they want to do. That decision cannot be made under foreign occupation with their people being murdered by the invading Russians.

The conditions put into place by NATO for membership seem intentionally unattainable.

basically actually win the war to the point it’s over. Then come talk to us again. Then we will tell you that you are still corrupt and need reforms.

Putin would essentially have veto power over Ukraine’s NATO membership by prolonging the conflict.

Exactly.

Better to set a clear date, say three or six months in the future, on which Ukraine will become a full member of NATO. That gives putin due warning and plenty of time to withdraw his criminal conscripts before he finds himself face to face with the big boys. His choice.

This will not instigate a nuclear war, because putin is not the only one with his finger on the button, and not even his underlings are stupid enough to obliterate themselves and their families for the sake of the tzar's ego.

*Russia will not allow NATO encroachment on their border** in such a large country. The country will be neutral, wrecked into a basketcase and/or dismembered.*

That is one of the key goals of the SMO

Yes, the 'key goal' that brought neutral Finland into NATO, with a longer land border with russia than Ukraine has.

the LPR/DPR militia forces are fighting with uncommon reserve and vigour as they are in quite literally fighting for their lives

Because if they don't fight the barrier troops stationed behind them kill them.

The US elections are coming and Biden is under performing and Democrats are panicking.

LOL, No. That is not accurate.

Trump is going to burn like a Russian tank (might lose his turret too to the extent that he has one) at the next election provided he isn't already in prison by that time.

No, this is the Russian narrative (shocker!) to play for time hoping against hope that Mini-me is not going to suffer a catastrophic strategic defeat.

The Trump parallels are uncanny... Almost like they are linked or something.....

JJE

The elephant in the room is this: Ukraine cannot win militarily and will have to cede territory (the four oblasts in their entirety plus Crimea and maybe a few more and perhaps a buffer zone or more) to settle the conflict and its borders.

Wars are not predictable, so this is just your opinion. The economic situation in Russia is likely to make execution of the war more and more difficult, with increasing social unrest.

But Kyiv will not agree to this - so the conflict will roll on and joining NATO anytime soon is a moot point.

Kyiv have no choice. If they agree to letting this territory go, they risk the rest of Ukraine in three years. They are in an existential war.

But that logic ignores that even bigger 800-pound gorilla in the room: Russia will not allow NATO encroachment on their border in such a large country. The country will be neutral, wrecked into a basketcase and/or dismembered.

Really? So what did they do when Finland doubled their border with NATO? Nothing.

The encroachment of NATO has been the biggest lie in this conflict. It is has nothing to do with this war.

Clearly this will be a frozen conflict for decades to come.

Game, set and match: Moscow.

Speaking of delusional thinking....

This is Moscow playing Russian Roulette with a loaded semi-automatic pistol.

Game, Set, BLAM! lol

If you set a definite timeline, the Ukraine offensive (if you can call it that) immediately stops and the bought and paid for proxy war just stops.

cant have that.

They have to decisively win to even be considered for membership. Not just the media repeating their own claims saying they captured 1 km of their own land and some trees. But actually win.

Blacklabel

They have to decisively win to even be considered for membership. Not just the media repeating their own claims saying they captured 1 km of their own land and some trees. But actually win.

It's a moot point. This article outlines how the G7 will support Ukraine as if they were in NATO, for everything except article 5. Which means that they will supply arms and training to Ukraine for years if necessary.

And when Russia's economy collapses and they can't continue with the war, that's when Ukraine joins NATO proper.

Zelensky's burned through a LOT of foreign money, most of the foreign spare ammunition, weapons, and war machines and thousands and thousands of Ukrainian lives trying to force the population in the east to kneel to the capital in the west, and been turned down hard by the easterners.

And when this last tranche of (illegally supplied) foreign spare ammunition is burned through, he'll be no closer to forcing the easterners to kneel, and further away from getting them to even politely nod before telling him to get lost.

JJEToday 10:07 am JST

The elephant in the room is this: Ukraine cannot win militarily and will have to cede territory (the four oblasts in their entirety plus Crimea and maybe a few more and perhaps a buffer zone or more) to settle the conflict and its borders.

What makes you think anything will be ceded willingly ever? Did the experience with postwar Germany rot the Russian brain or something?

But that logic ignores that even bigger 800-pound gorilla in the room: Russia will not allow NATO encroachment on their border in such a large country. The country will be neutral, wrecked into a basketcase and/or dismembered.

That is one of the key goals of the SMO.

Russia would have to stop being absolutely terrible at military operations. Otherwise, Russia will be a wasteland of discontent as bad as Ukraine if it doesn't get a ceasefire.

kurisupisuToday 08:58 am JST

Ukraine being a full member of NATO would involve foreign troops in Ukraine which Russia would not tolerate

A whole lot can be done without actual NATO troops. It's to the benefit of NATO unity, actually. And once there is a ceasefire, in can go the actual NATO troops.

That is the existential threat that Putin has spoken of on more than one occasion.

He's going to have to choke down a whole lot of unpleasant truths after he tried to rub out a country.

And anyone thinking that Ukraine is blameless for the Russian invasion definitely needs to do more research on the subject

Still Putin's War

114 billion on a lost cause and no victory in sight,like Iraq and Afghanistan

yep it took the Soviet 10yrs, then they packed up and left, just like they will in Ukraine.

Russias cash reserves are running out fast, expected by years end. then the real problems start for Putin

Putin's resource aren't wavering that's ridiculous.

cash reserves are wavering fast,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zar_H_6SSUE

The G7 cannot afford to have it go on for years

they can afford it a lot longer than Putin

RichardPearceToday 11:17 am JST

Zelensky's burned through a LOT of foreign money, most of the foreign spare ammunition, weapons, and war machines and thousands and thousands of Ukrainian lives trying to force the population in the east to kneel to the capital in the west, and been turned down hard by the easterners.

The "easterners" are Russians now, don't you know?

And when this last tranche of (illegally supplied) foreign spare ammunition is burned through,

Like to see this law saying military aid is illegal.

he'll be no closer to forcing the easterners to kneel, and further away from getting them to even politely nod before telling him to get lost.

The "easterners" are just a small fraction of the bots under the control of Putin at this point. Their opinion on anything is meaningless. Putin made it so.

JJEToday 11:25 am JST

Simple fact is the 2014 US adventure into Ukraine has been a strategic failure and the US no longer stands to benefit; on the contrary it’s an albatross around the neck.

I'll tell you what, not as big an albatross as a hopping mad NATO infused Ukraine on your border for the 50 years.

*the next

What ol' Jack Burton always says

This is exactly what Putin did not want to hear. It means that support from the G7 countries will be for years, not months. Putin's economy is wavering, his resources are waning and the resolve of the troops is low. He cannot afford to have this go on for years.

No you have it backwards.

The G7 cannot afford to have it go on for years

But that is exactly what they have signed up for in this agreement.

The advancements are pitiful in Ukrainian offensive.

Early days.

Putin's resource aren't wavering that's ridiculous.

Oh, but they are. Ukraine now have more tanks than Russia - they started with a quarter of Russia's tank numbers.

The only reason that Russia's economy looks OK is because they cook the books. They can only do that for so long.

Zelensky's burned through a LOT of foreign money, most of the foreign spare ammunition, weapons, and war machines and thousands and thousands of Ukrainian lives 

and you think Russia is immune also LOL

Nlaws Javelins are a lot cheaper and faster to produce than tanks, armored vehicles

Once NATO members start ramping up weapons production Russia will struggle to keep up

So now we just have to wait until…. the Russian economy collapses?

couidnt something have been done with that focus from Day 1 instead of 10s of thousands of deaths and 100s of billions in cash and weapons lost?

What ol' Jack Burton always saysToday 11:30 am JST

The encroachment of NATO has been the biggest lie in this conflict. It is has nothing to do with this war.

That's completely delusional.

A wall of countries specifically designed to oppose Russia

Then criminally attacking a third party and ensuring further NATO enlargement is one of the biggest own goals we have ever seen on the world stage. There will be tons and tons of NATO gear on Russia's border now and Putin is powerless to stop it.

What ol' Jack Burton always says

The encroachment of NATO has been the biggest lie in this conflict. It is has nothing to do with this war.

That's completely delusional.

Nope.

A wall of countries specifically designed to oppose Russia

Because Russia is the only aggressor in the region. NATO wouldn't exist without Russian aggression in Chechnya, Georgia and Crimea. Countries feel vulnerable to Russian aggression, so they join NATO.

BlacklabelToday 11:35 am JST

So now we just have to wait until…. the Russian economy collapses?

couidnt something have been done with that focus from Day 1 instead of 10s of thousands of deaths and 100s of billions in cash and weapons lost?

Nobody thinks your plan to 10x US gas production is good for the planet.

Blacklabel

So now we just have to wait until…. the Russian economy collapses?

Probably closer than most people think. But a combination of that and military successes.

couidnt something have been done with that focus from Day 1 instead of 10s of thousands of deaths and 100s of billions in cash and weapons lost?

They did. That's what the sanctions are about. But they take time to achieve their purpose.

That’s a bunch of very vague expectations you have there.

wait on economy wait for military success wait for sanctions. All been 1.5 years already.

So end of the year Russia just gonna fall apart is the new plan?

So now we just have to wait until…. the Russian economy collapses?

No, but if we did, we might not have that long to wait.

1.8 million Russians (1.5%) of the population left Russia permanently in 2022 and they were virtually all in the 20-35 age range -the heart of both workers and consumers in a modern (cough cough) economy.

The Ruble is crashing. Foreign currency reserves frozen. Access to Western markets and access to Western tech hugely reduced. Oil and gas sales to the West sharply reduced and India and China not picking up all the slack (and getting hefty discounts for the slack it does take up).

Both the short and long term prospects for this mafia run gas stand pretending to be a country are “dubious” at best.

And again, we don’t need to wait, Ukraine is winning and will prevail.

The cat was let out of the bag Monday by US Sate Dept spokesman Matthew Miller, who accurately described it as a strategic failure for Ukraine - twice - with a masse Freudian multiple slip of the tongue.

“Answering your first question, we believe the war has been a strategic failure for Ukraine,” Miller said. When journalists covering the State Department clamored that he surely meant “for Russia,” Miller did it again.

“Excuse me, a strategic failure for Ukraine, thank you for the correction,” he went on.

Realizing he strayed from the narrative twice, he snapped back into talking point mode. It’s on Youtube. Classics stuff…

Blacklabel

That’s a bunch of very vague expectations you have there.

wait on economy wait for military success wait for sanctions. All been 1.5 years already.

So end of the year Russia just gonna fall apart is the new plan?

No, sanctions are the economic plan. That isn't new. The counteroffensive are the military plan.

Poor Putin....

First his "7-day limited special military operation" is now a full -on war and has passed 500 days...

His favorite warship is now a rusting hulk at the bottom of the Black Sea...

His own weapons don't work so he's forced to beg Iran for drones and nKorea for ammo...

His BFF, warlord, and preferred hot dog provider revolted and used his private army to attack the Russian military and take over a Russian city....all the while his generals sat on their hands...

And now his generals seem to be either coming up dead or missing...

One top commander has disappeared since a mutiny. Another was killed in an airstrike in Ukraine. Another accused his leadership of treachery after being fired. And a fourth former commander was gunned down while out on a jog in what may have been an organized hit.

https://news.yahoo.com/missing-russian-general-taking-rest-175622294.html

There's some serious palace intrigue going on in the Kremlin...

And the pro-Russian posters here continue with their Potemkin Village fantasy that "all's well"....

Sure it is...

actually that’s a “they” not a “yoiu” as you have no involvement in this outside of posting support on a Japan website. So I wouldn’t really be claiming “we” for that.

I stand with democracy, human rights and national sovereignty. So “we” is perfectly fine.

You on the other hand, stand with anti-democratic forces of fascism (from the safety of Japan no less).

Odd, that.

Maybe “they” is better for you.

What ol' Jack Burton always says

@2020

Yesterday you said it's not possible for either Ukraine or Russia to intercept missiles that are carrying cluster bombs that will undoubtedly harm civilians.

That's because cluster munitions are mostly delivered as artillery shells.

Excuse me, a strategic failure for Ukraine, thank you for the correction,” he went on.

Ouch. Can “the White House” walk him back too?

I mean Biden did say Ukraine yesterday when he supposedly meant Russia.