quercetum comments

The more the US sanctions, the more the world just begins to ignore and bypass the US.

The Chinese are winning the chips war. They have a completely indigenous 28nm machine and will corner the market. The more you sanction the more self-reliant they become. China’s biggest chipmaker SMIC posts record revenue in 2022, up 37% to total over $7.2 billion.

TSMC is in Arizona but the US has to subsidize them to the tune of billions of dollars while they remain having their people, plants and other critical resources, especially their supply chain ecosystem in Taiwan and China.

as full authoritarian control allows for drastic moves that could not happen in democracies, that can quickly take care of small and even moderately large issues.

True and well said. The issue is corruption. I have no problems with a benevolent authoritarian emperor or party or government.

But authoritarianism is built on a weak foundation, and without a strong foundation, everything eventually collapses.

Authoritarianism versus a Representative Democracy and Western Capitalism has been overemphasized.

Between 1952 and 1982, Taiwan’s economic growth was on average 8.7%, and between 1983 and 1986 at 6.9%. 

Until 1987 Taiwan was under a military dictatorship. It was very much authoritarian and Martial Law was only lifted then.

If a cat catches mice, it does not matter if it’s black or white.

Its Taiwans official name ?

Or the political parties official name ?

That is Taiwan’s official name. It’s on their passport. They have only added Taiwan a few years ago so it’s Republic of China Taiwan.

Agree - but modern Taiwanese people see themselves as Taiwanese. Not Chinese.

That's not entirely true

I was recently living with a Taiwanese person who told me they were all Chinese.

You might consider the use of “Chinese” as the way “Anglican” is used. So while Australia is not England, the Anglican part is the same as saying Taiwanese are Chinese or Han Chinese.

It’s the same as how Texans see themselves as Texans but they are also Americans. (Remember the Alamo!)

What Taiwanese mean by that they’re not Chinese is that they’re not mainland Chinese or not mainlanders because they used to, and to a lesser extent today, look down upon the mainlanders struggling in poverty. They also don’t want to be associated with or as a Communist, especially in the Chinese Civil War. They say they are not Chinese like a New Yorker would say he is not a Southerner.

People from Kobe say they’re from Kobe and not from Hyogo prefecture. There is a similarity in pride and not wanting to be socially and economically lumped together.

Californians are not poor Appalachian hillbillies either but they’re American. The New Yorker or Texan is an American as a Taiwanese is Chinese.

China’s property market is a destabilising, bottomless hole of debt.

I’m going to explain why debt in China is not the same debt in the West.

In China, banking is different, debt is different, and asset valuation are treated differently.

China's entire domestic system is Chinese, and it's not based on Western principles. Take the example of Non Performing Assets. The US and other countries write off Non Performing Assets by replacing them with Shareholder Capital.

So as you write off more loans, you simply re-capitalise your banks and pay from the banks capital towards the written off loans. China is entirely opposite. 

China diverts all non-performing loans into a separate entity and ensures that the bad debts are settled with the borrowers in many ways and reduced over years. This is actually helping the debtor to take responsibility to square up and not fall into debt which is a Western Christian principle.

In reality China is actually closing bad debts with real money. The US is merely creating money to close bad debts, provide recapitalization or reissue of shares.

Have you ever not felt the banks should take responsibility, even if some, in the 2008 global financial crisis or the Lehman Shock as it is called in Japan? The CPC would not ever let bankers off so easily. The CPC actually protects the people where in the US, it’s obvious the Corporations that are being protected.

Consumer and business confidence is shot.

It must be remembered that China’s economic results over the past 3 years have not been inflated by massive covid stimuli. Instead, the covid lockdowns, one of the world’s strictest and longest, were used to enforce discipline on several problem sectors, such as education, big tech and of course, and especially real estate. The real estate market is being bled down, while big tech will be regulated, especially the shadow banking portion, and privacy protection.

China’s exports and imports, domestic retail sales, private and foreign investment, youth employment and GDP are all cratering.

Two things can cause the decline of the Chinese Economy today and they are not the ones above.

Accelerating development of China to push their middle class to 2/3.

Huge population reduction (At the rate of maybe 15–20 Million a year for 15 years) by 300 Million or so in a very short period of time.

What the US desires, will actually help China. War will enhance the Chinese Economy.

Its producer and manufacturer and industrial growth will surge massively and unemployment will be less than 2% instead of 5.5%.

An invasion of Taiwan will only cripple the West like it's being done in Ukraine while Russia is growing and laughing.

Why would you want the decline of China? China is a huge market for Corporate America.

Most of the Anti-China sentiment is because China sells everyone everything but its markets do not buy too many finished western products barring high quality ones

The Main complaint against China is that

I buy your cars, smartphones, laptops, machinery and legacy chips and electronics but you keep paying me less and less for my core technologies and developing your own.

John Deere once sold 3.4 Million Units in China and everyone was happy

Today?

231,000 Units because Chinese Brands have taken over that sector.

A long time ago, HP, Apple, Toshiba and IBM and Dell combined once sold 91% of all Laptops in China

Today they sell 62% only because almost 30% has been captured by Lenovo and Redmi and other brands

That's why everyone is angry

Still the Chinese Economy is responsible for 31% of the World's Exports from other countries

That's almost $8.5 Trillion

For a comparison, that's higher than the entire South Asia and South East Asia ($ 8.48 Trillion)

So damaging the Chinese Economy will mean a devastating impact on your own economy and a surplus glut of products and at least 6 million jobs in the Global market gone.

The Guardian will keep writing nonsense about China's economy and satisfy its readers.

Beijing is in fact more in tune with Taiwan public opinion than most people think. What you get here is just minimal but enough. Taiwanese VP visits U.S. Beijing upset. That's it.

The counter chess move that Beijing has made is clever. While Lai has gone to the US, the pro-Beijing candidates have also made recent trips, and that has eaten up the news cycle in Taiwan. The message that Beijing is making is that Beijing really objects to a Taiwan separatist visiting the US, but presumably if a non-separatist visits the US, then there will be no problem.

On landing in New York on Sunday, Lai said on Twitter, now rebranded as X: "Happy to arrive at the Big Apple, icon of liberty, democracy and opportunities," adding that he was greeted at the airport by representatives of the American Institute in Taiwan, the United States's de facto embassy for the island.

The other point worth mentioning is that the head of the de-facto US embassy AIT, Laura Rosenberger, will not be meeting Lai publicly, and it is significant that no US officials are scheduled to publicly meet Lai. Of course, who knows what private meetings there are, but public meetings send signals.

This is significant because there are dozens of Senators and Representatives who would love to meet Lai, and if no member of Congress meets Lai this means that Lai is specifically asking for no meetings and is sending a message to Beijing that he can be trusted. I would also add that Beijing is too smart t to be played by Lai; first get elected then raise taxes; first get elected then become pro-independence.

This is not the guy the US wants is the talk in Taiwan. As for why, people have their opinions.

Lai is “behaving himself.” No public meetings with US officials, very low key. In fact, I don’t think that Lai has mentioned the word independence although he still uses “country” rather than “side” and talks about “China” rather than “Mainland.”

If this is the “real Lai Ching-Te” it means much less likely that a crisis will happen. Basically you need to turn two keys in order to start war and to blow up the world. Taiwan has to push for independence, and Washington has to agree.

Under Chen Shui-Bian you had a President who was pro-independence, but Washington said no. Under Trump you had the opposite situation. Pompeo was clearly interested in advocating Taiwanese independence, but Tsai Ying-Wen was not interested and has kept the status quo, which is what the majority on the island wants to the U.S.'s dismay.

If Lai was really the “independence fighter” and Trump and Pompeo are both in the Executive Branch, then we will be close or closer to war. If Lai is more level headed like Tsai, then he can at least slow things down.

Now you never know, it could be that Lai is really pro-independence and playing the long game, but even the fact that he is playing the long game means that you won’t have an immediate crisis. This is why he may not be the guy Washington wants. The US will become bored with the Taiwan issue. Give it another 2-3 years and it will blow away like the Uighurs in Xinjiang, Free Tibet, Hong Kong Independence, the Spy Balloon and so on.

The Taiwanese and the Chinese in Taiwan do not want war. Neither does China. For this reason, there will no be war. The US will move on to using Myanmar or Mongolia or the Philippines to start war with China because Taiwan won't be able to deliver.

Japan and the U.S. will agree this week to jointly develop an interceptor missile to counter hypersonic warheads being developed by China, Russia and North Korea, Japan's Yomiuri newspaper said on Sunday.

What about hypersonic missiles? How about developing these?

Rule by fear has consequences. China’s exports and imports, domestic retail sales, private and foreign investment, youth employment and GDP are all cratering. China’s property market is a destabilising, bottomless hole of debt. Consumer and business confidence is shot.

garbage is not worth reading. If you need to read to find out how well a country's economy is doing instead of looking up the numbers yourself or you are not sure what the indicators are, then you can't think for yourself or form your own opinion on the China's economy.

Xi is holding things together and very level headed. He's the reason there is peace. China has not fought in a war and is not going to invade Taiwan on Xi's watch.

Deflationary spiral

While on paper falling prices may seem like a good thing for purchasing power, a drop into deflation poses a long-term threat.

To help you understand this writing and choice of words, it is equivalent to saying someone will be hospitalized for months when the person just needs an aspirin.

Deflation happens when your economy is developed and goes into stagnancy. Norway, Denmark, and Japan are nations that have seen deflation.

No nation in the history of the modern world has gone into deflation with a growth of 6.3% a quarter or 5% a year. The highest GDP of a nation that went into deflation was 1.1% which was Japan and the lowest was -0.7% which was Norway.

A nation that grows at 6.3% or 5% means that within the economy, value is growing, and deflation means value is falling. They are diametric opposites.

Developing nations don't go through deflation. The way developing nations see deflation is by a sudden huge loss of population due to war or migration in the millions.

So what's going on is that the CPI of China fell by -0.3% from July 2022. That's all. That is not even the definition of deflation. Deflation needs a minimum 8 Quarters or 2 Years. Even if China has a negative CPI every quarter, it won't be until August 2025 that you can call it deflation.

Bricks and mortar are a pillar of the economy in a country where property has long been seen as a safe bet for middle class Chinese seeking to grow their wealth.

Yet financial woes at a large number of developers, many of whom are now struggling to stay afloat, are fueling a crisis of confidence among potential buyers and depressing prices.

People are different and so have different views. Why acknowledge that cultural differences but claim someone's way of thinking is wrong? Different ways of thinking lead to different actions taken.

In China banking is different, debt is different, asset valuation are treated differently. Those who find it difficult to comprehend and are not inclined to think critically will dismiss this a Communism. Try and see it from a non- Western perspective.

China's entire domestic system is Chinese, and it's not based on Western Principles. Take the simple example of Non Performing Assets. The US and other countries write off Non Performing Assets by replacing them with Shareholder Capital (USA).

So as you write off more loans, you simply re-capitalise your banks and pay from the banks capital towards the written off loans. China is entirely opposite.

China diverts all non-performing loans into a separate entity and ensures that the bad debts are settled with the borrowers in many ways and reduced over years. Take the hit little by little. Cushion the fall. So obviously bad debts remain high.

Yet in reality China is actually closing bad debts with real money. The US is merely creating money to close bad debts, provide recapitalization or reissue of shares.

Chinese value assets are also based on real value. If a bank values Land for 100 Million RMB in 2007, the Land is still 100 Million RMB in 2017 even though the value of the land may actually be 300 Million RMB.

So when the bank says the debt against the Land is 85 Million RMB and that the collateral is 85% leveraged , in reality it is actually less than 30% leveraged.

Whereas in US, they value the present market value so when someone says 85% of an asset is leveraged, it's drastically different from that in China.

So frankly the Chinese trillions of dollar economy grows at 6.35 a quarter and 5% a year, which is pretty decent even by Western standards, it is actually much stronger by Chinese Standards.

If the commentators here understand how Chinese value things, he would realize China is already far stronger economy wise than many nations. Add up the numbers, 5% versus of the second largest economy versus 2% of the largest economy.

If you think their government must be wrong and invariably will fail, they are not the USSR or Russia in the 90's. It's your thinking that they are wrong that is wrong.

Even the U.S. team is Anti-American. They don’t seem to like their country at all.

Don’t Americans respect their flag and national anthem? Why do they all look so angry when their song is being played?

"China is in deflation, for sure, the question is for how long." Robin Xing of Morgan Stanley said on Bloomberg Television. "It's up to the policymakers how they react."

Deflation happens when your Economy is developed and goes into stagnancy. Norway, Denmark, and Japan are nations that have seen deflation.

No nation in the history of the modern world has gone into deflation with a growth of 6.3% a quarter or 5% a year.

The highest GDP of a nation that went into deflation was 1.1% which was Japan and the lowest was -0.7% which was Norway.

A nation that grows at 6.3% or 5% means that within the economy, value is growing, and deflation means value is falling. They are diametric opposites.

Developing nations don't go through deflation. The way developing nations see deflation is by a sudden huge loss of population due to war or migration in the millions.

So whats going on is that the CPI of China fell by -0.3% from July 2022. That's all.

That is not even the definition of deflation. Deflation needs a minimum 8 Quarters or 2 Years.

This is imo a correction because 2022 had a very high base CPI due to the lockdowns. Furthermore, experts predict 2% inflation for 2023. What's happening is normal economics.

Even if China has a negative CPI every quarter, it won't be until August 2025 that you can call it deflation.

China is $19 trillion size economy and the number one GPP in the world recording 5% growth. No economy with such a performance will go into deflation.

NEVER TRUST TEPCO and it's allies in the government.

Chisso also thought it was safe to release into Minamata Bay.

how many "about to release", "will release", "to release"s do I hear before they actually do it? Next "news", come on.

@tell_me_bout_it

Tell me about it.

In terms of economic clout, Japan can’t beat China, so it’s important for Japan to show its partners that it’s willing to get involved on a long-term basis.

Here is why it is difficult for Japan to beat China. The Chinese normally think many times before making important decisions. Look how many monthes it took to respond to US sanctions on chips in October 2022. The restrictions on exports took place August 1st, 2023, That's almost one year later.

They have thought this out. They play out the scenarios because they don't want to be caught flat like the USA or EU who make all decisions in a hurry for elections around the corner and are usually left holding nothing and end up being embarrassed. And Japan, at least for now, has to follow that kind of leadership.

All that China is doing is simply saying, look. I took on Rare Earth processing because you decided it was too unprofitable and too messy and too unsafe for your water and your environment.

China is the world factory. Factories pollute. Asking China to manufacture products and buying them, then complaining about its environmental effects is like an American tourist buying yaki-tori at a stall in Tokyo and instead of saying thank you, he says, look at all that smoke you're making. It's bad for the air.

China says, I extract rare earths and process them at a profit of $ 3.95 a ton so that you guys can make your EVs at a 36% —54% profit.

Now, I am not sure if it is worth the trouble if you're going to sanction chips. We can make 28nm on our own. I may not need to destroy my environment and affect my people for your sake anymore.

It's not worth the $3.95 a ton profit. I'd rather use it for my domestic industries in greater quantity. I can reduce my rare earth processing and save my environment.

I could sell you rare earths at $21 profit per ton because I know you will process them at $26.50 a ton LOSS if you directly process rare earths yourselves. Its not really retaliation but more, a reflection.

Why should China keep cluttering its environment and soil just to keep EU and US and Australia clean and pristine in their switch to EVs when these nations claim China is damaging the environment. Who sends the coal to China?

If China goes this route, a quota may be established where a maximum of 40,000 battery packs will be exported a year from China. Today it's almost 180,000 packs; and that would be a 70% -75% cut in the supply chain. For at least the next 10-15 years until the production is met elsewhere, EVs made outside China will be throttled badly.

China has no issues if you keep making EVs in China and exporting them. This is to protect Chinese EVs from the same trade threats as the Chinese chips face at a later date.

If EU bans Chinese EVs tomorrow like they banned Huawei then China will cut all EV rare earths and throttle their EV industry for at least 2 decades. That will keep China dominant in EV technology and a leading player.

China got taken for 5G and Huawei but it was a valuable lesson. Now they take precautions with their EV dominance, and it is this long-term basis thinking Japan does not have because it is the way the US makes policies.

This is making it hard for Japan to beat China.

Any type of bombing/missile attack on China would leave that country in ruins. For decades building developers have been been using shoddy materials for construction, ie. hollow bricks, hollow concrete blocks and pillars, under weight and useless Rebars, no drainage systems...etc....

Yes, commonly known as tofu dreg construction. These are the corrupt construction companies who have no conscience for the safety of those who would be living in these poorly constructed buildings.

I was talking about China trying to starve the Taiwanese.

That's what I mean they are not going to try and start the Taiwanese, their own people. It's Washington (Beijing) vs a US State and Beijing versus a province of China (ROC or PRC.) That is the view.

I am not sure if the US intended to starve the Chinese in the 20 year embargo against China though millions ended up dying through famine and failed CCP policies. The intention was to break down the state. So surrounding the island of Taiwan post Pelosi's visit is a clue to how the CCP plans on disrupting and making it an economic war.

Quercetum - so you are thinking China will try and starve Taiwan into submission?

That is what the US did for 20 years on China and it definiitely made the country poorer. There is no argument against the effectiveness of an embargo. The question is breaking the blockade and not landing on the West side of the island.

That said, no, it is not a miedval castle siege. It is conquering by attrition and to weaken and disrupt the economy, not to starve its own people.

I don't see a Normandy landing or a Doolittle air raid fire bombing Taipei like it was Tokyo 1942. They want to straighten out the DPP not to destroy Taiwan.

US Marines gearing up to defend 'key' terrain near China are about to get a first-of-its-kind ship-hunting missile

I get your point but I am thinking it will be an embargo / blockade and then talks. It is unlikely there will be any defending of terrain because they will just sit on the embargo or go to missiles warfare. The landing will be after everything is over.

It’ll be a naval warfare and Desert Tortoise will tell you the U.S. is at a disadvantage being away. It would be the same if China had to fight off the coast of California.

You all have mentioned in the past about his difficult it’ll be to land on the island of Taiwan and how only a few months of the year have the right conditions. We are not trying to save Private Ryan here.

It’s amusing it’s 2023 and American here are still talking about D-Day style beach landings as if it were still 1944. Taiwan is not Normandy, and it is not 1944.

It is highly unlikely that China is planning beach landings because the Taiwan straits are 80 - 100 kilometers across and PRC ships would be targeted with anti-ship missiles leading to heavy (and unnecessary) casualties. We’re there Anti-ship missiles in 1944?

Military action would likely start with an air and sea blockade of Taiwan. We saw this after Pelosi’s visit. China uses leverage and will go for the win in the 15th round. China is not Mike Tyson going for a knockout punch but more __ (fill in appropriate boxer name) with stamina. This would disrupt and bring Taiwan’s economy to a halt, and the Taiwanese would have an internal discussion about whether they want to fight or talk.

The US and Japan would decide what action they would want to take to break a Chinese blockade. Would they take military action, or just resort to sanctions against China? How would they protect their supply lines across the Pacific? It’ll most likely be sanctions.

If war broke out, it would most likely involve missiles against land and sea targets. First in Taiwan and mainland China, then against US bases in Japan, South Korea and Philippines.

If China wins, the landings will only take place after China has won and Taiwan surrenders. The attack is just TV drama.

Japan is in Asia, and Japan calls it "南シナ海": literally the South China Sea.

You’re right on that. No countries surrounding the seas call it the South China Seas.

No one in Asia calls it the South China Seas. What a stupid Anglicized name. It’s the South Seas or the East Seas or the West Philippines Seas depending on the country.

Since there is a dispute, Western countries should refrain from using the South China Seas and opt for a neutral name.

The President of the Republic of China - Tsai Ing-Wen’s Twitter page shows a tweet written in Simplified Chinese, the characters Mainland China uses:

Typhoon Doksuri has caused much flooding and damage in Beijing and surrounding areas. I extend my sympathy and condolences to the people who are suffering and the lost lives. I pray for a quick recovery for all those in the affected areas

Considering that many in China call her a traitor for supporting Taiwanese Independence and make disparaging remarks that an unmarried woman like her could never govern a country well, Tsai is still able to take the high road and reach out to China.

So are you suggesting they should just accept what you consider to be the inevitable fate of Chinese supremacy, and pander to China instead? Or... just complaining in general. Or pushing the CCP agenda maybe?

I tend to think iron sharpens iron. What Biden (or Trump for that matter) is helping China to corner the market. They are on their way to controlling the whole supply line for chips. Furthermore the heads of Nvidia and AMD are Chinese, and founder and culture of TSMC is very much Chinese. The U.S. needs to come up with a plan to counter China and the problem isn’t Taiwan.

China is too smart to start a war and invade Taiwan. Imo, the challenge is that they commoditize everything. They war they mass produce warships. I’ll let Desert Tortoise to share the shipbuilding capacity gap between the US and China. Something like 13 million tons versus 200,000 per year per Navy research. They can make as many drones as ears of corn in Iowa, sort of speak. And now they’re going after the US MIC.

Without chips, the ability to make advanced weapons is compromised, the US says to China.

Without the raw materials to make chips, the ability to make advanced weapons is compromised, China replies to the U.S.

You're not going to sell me bread. I won’t sell you flour. Fine. I’ll just get it somewhere else. You do that.

Australia is one of a few gearing up to gather and produce these rare resources and more to eliminate China's monopoly once and for all.

I doubt the Australian government can compete with the hundreds of billions of dollars the Biden administration is throwing out to encourage greater domestic investment in renewables, including diversifying supplies of critical minerals processing and rare earths refining. Canberra’s commitment to just a $500 million lending facility through the Northern Australian Infrastructure Fund will barely touch the sides of even one big new project.

They could have made sure the boy didn’t see it so he could be told they died in an accident.

The US bans chips made by Chinese raw materials. I'm sure they considered the scenario where China bans these materials used to make the chips. That's only one step. The Biden administration can't think that far ahead. They can but they're not. This is just the Tough on China election card to play.

China will no doubt rule the chip production in this World. The sanctions are helping them to be completely self-sufficient. China is the largest electric vehicle manufacturer in the world. It produces more EVs than the US, Germany, Japan, France, and Korea combined. The US has its defense contractors but China is already moving in. Skip the chips and move to the end products in question and that is arms.

Chinese defense firms are planning to produce in Turkey and fulfill a major portion of NATO's demand for weapons. China is a Commodization Colossus. The CCC is a montster of the economies of scale. It knows where it should buy commoodities and where it should sell commodities.

It goes to Saudi Arabia to seal the most profitable oil purchases and now for selling arms and weapons, it goes to Turkey and countries that will have extreme demands. 74 Chinese defense firms are slated to participate in the upcoming International Defense Industry Fair in Istanbul. Only 5 US companies are expected to attend. What is up China's sleeve?

They are looking into acquiring Turkish companies instead of establishing production lines of their own. The West thinks NATO will defeat China yet China is planning to even sell weapons to NATO. This tells you China's outlook and how many steps China is ahead of the game as well as China's manufacturing and defense endeavors.

If Japan didn’t surrender in August, the Soviets would have invaded. And the Americans would then have invaded too, and Japan would have been carved up — just like Germany and the Korean Peninsula eventually were. 

You’re only looking at this from the dropping of the atomic bombs. Roosevelt and Churchill discussed with Stalin the conditions under which the Soviet Union would enter the war against Japan and all three agreed that, in exchange for potentially crucial Soviet participation in the Pacific theater, the Soviets would be granted a sphere of influence. Russia would take the Kurils and yes they were ready to come down on Hokkaido.

That said, you make it sound as if the Japanese should thank the U.S. for dropping the bombs when the U.S. was an aggressor as well. No condoning this, but in that era it was perfectly acceptable to trade countries like baseball cards. The UK and USA also offered China the French colonies in IndoChina, as if they were theirs to give away.

This type of thinking is incomprehensible to us today, the notion of “Sovereign Nations” having entered the public consciousness.

After WWII ended, there were plans to share the spoils of Japan. The Allies decided to divide Japan into separate occupation zones, just as they had done with Germany, the other major Axis power.

The Soviets would get Hokkaido and Tohoku. China Shikoku. US Honshu. The UK Kyushu and Chugoku. The Potsdam Conference partially refutes this argument crediting the bombs for an undivided Japan.

So why was this not carried out? That’s the answer to why Japan remains undivided East and West today and not so much the atomic bombs that we are supposed to be thankful for.

Oh my.

He’s a doctor of antoms and energy.

It was covered in the LA Times

and that’s parroting.

The U.S. tried to take the whole peninsula but were taught a lesson by the Communist Chinese. MacArthur was removed. An L for the US.

If you look up the expression quit while you’re ahead in the dictionary, you’ll see a picture of MacArthur. Surely they regret provoking the Chinese. They had the whole Korean Peninsula and there could have been one Korea today.

The U.S. tried to help Republic if China but quit have way in between. The Communist won. An L for the U.S.

After two decades in Vietnam, the U.S. again called it quits. Too many lives sacrificed. An L for the U.S.

After building Air Force bases in Taiwan and installing nuclear weapons there, The Communists demanded the complete withdrawal from Taiwan and to kick Taiwan out of the UN. The U.S. had no choice and accepted the terms like a loser in a war. An L for the US.

In the Philippines, the US betrayed the Filipinos post the Spanish American War. In the end the Filipinos fought and became independent. Am L for the U.S.

In Japan the US dropped two atomic bombs which ended up killing civilians.

The US has not had success in Asia. Losses everywhere not to mention Laos and Cambodia and the use of chemicals on civilians.