Russian mercenaries' revolt undermines Putin and could lead to further challenges to his rule

There are a lot of open questions:

Will Prigozhin be happy in retirement?

Are Russians in various places prepared to just assume the revolt didn't happen?

Will one of Putin's praetorian guard finally off the little man?

Putin's leadership got tested but he passed with flying colors.

25,000 fully armed, battle hardened ex-cons were charging towards the capital gung ho for a fight.

Putin merely delivered a speech and every single one of them backed down and succumbed to his wishes.

Not a single drop of blood was shed.

Both the Wagner fighters and the Russian military obeyed Putin's orders not to shoot at each other.

Not a single political leader, either inside Russia or outside dared to voice support for coup attempt, and every single influential leader in Russia has since reiterated their support for Putin.

Putin just showed any potential coup plotter that the loyalty of Russians to his leadership can not be challenged.

Putin can stop a coup with a mere speech.

Not a single drop of blood was shed

This isn't true. Numerous aircraft were shot down. The pilots didn't escape. There were other clashes as well.

The numbers of the Wagner Group were probably about 10,000, not 25,000. Putin was seriously challenged for the first time in his career and was clearly shaken. Putin appeared weak.

Putin can stop a coup with a mere speech.

Except he didn’t. It was stopped through negotiations with Lukashenko.

This isn't true. Numerous aircraft were shot down. The pilots didn't escape.

The "aircraft" were drones.

No pilots lost.

@ThubanToday 06:43 am JST

Putin's leadership got tested but he passed with flying colors.

Sorry but letting coup plotters just leave is not exactly showing strength.

25,000 fully armed, battle hardened ex-cons were charging towards the capital gung ho for a fight.

Putin merely delivered a speech and every single one of them backed down and succumbed to his wishes.

Except for the fact that it had nothing to do with the fuhrer's speech and everything to do with the deal that was struck.

Not a single drop of blood was shed.

We don't know that. At least one terrorist in a helicopter exited the earth.

Both the Wagner fighters and the Russian military obeyed Putin's orders not to shoot at each other.

Yeah, keep telling yourself it is on Putin's orders.

Not a single political leader, either inside Russia or outside dared to voice support for coup attempt, and every single influential leader in Russia has since reiterated their support for Putin.

No, nobody outside of the military is reiterating their support for Putin. They are waiting to see if he is offed in the next 48 hours first.

Putin just showed any potential coup plotter that the loyalty of Russians to his leadership can not be challenged.

Putin can stop a coup with a mere speech.

Sorry, fantasies don't make it so.

You people believe this hoax,the Western media,this was stage to set Ukraine up for the delusional narrative,they were already salivating of Putin oyster,his carnage goes on

At least they changed the narrative to a “revolt” now.

using “coup” was quite ridiculous.

Putin's leadership got tested but he passed with flying colors.

25,000 fully armed, battle hardened ex-cons were charging towards the capital gung ho for a fight.

It only left him with homework, he really depends on Wagner for Ukraine matters. While Wagner's ammo being depleted from time to time, this issue already being raised only for being heard by deaf ears in Moscow. Which make Wagner turned back to Moscow. Witthout ammo can't make offensive or defensive.

https://www.wionews.com/world/ordinary-bureaucracy-or-a-betrayal-wagner-chief-says-without-fresh-ammunition-bakhmut-could-collapse-569053

Where's Putin after that "famous" speech?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22800840/putin-flees-moscow-st-petersburg-bunker-wagner-mutiny-war/

Compared that to Erdogan coup that really show up from time to time.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/15/12203708/turkey-president-recep-tayyip-erdogan-apple-facetime-military-coup

Things like this are why the CIA even exists in the first place, so likely yep.

Any update on the counter-offensive?

the fuhrer's speech 

offensive/vulgar.

and totally inaccurate on top of that.

and totally inaccurate on top of that.

Oh? How so?

Any update on the counter-offensive?

Still in meters.

“Over the last day, the Ukrainian forces advanced 600 to 1,000 meters”

What a surprise...

You recruit a ex-convict to lead a mercenary group, who then recruits the worst kind of people from all prisons in Russia, only to have them all mutiny against you ....

A few of you in here need to get rid of that poster of Vlad you have over your bed because his days are numbered

I don't believe the story.

Prigozhin and his army had enough of the meat grinder.

He and Putin worked a deal that they both win.

Prigozhin's army pretends to head to Moscow, and Putin pretends to be the tough guy.

Prigozhin's army stops for no reason and gets safe passage to Belarus.

Putin maintains his strong man image.

This is the way Putin thinks.

Will one of Putin's praetorian guard finally off the little man?

This certainly has shown that there is dissention and Putin can't truly trust everyone around him.

Lesse -

UN sanctions, kicking him where it counts

Buying drones from Iran. That means Russia doesn't have the resources or knowledged manpower to build their own.

Drafting Russian men in their 40s and 50s. A sign of desperation. And draft riots.

The war going on longer than expected.

All these factors and more have made Putin a pariah. And this weekend especially has put egg on his face! He will never recover his standing after this.

Prigozhin may be killed by Russian agents while in exile or Belarus may do the job themselves. Whichever way things go for him, it only shows that Putin has a weakness revealed which he will never recover from. \

It's only a matter of TIME.

Any update on the counter-offensive?

Is there any real military beside Wagner in Russia beside those that being used in parade?

Despite it being stated on Friday that it was a beef with the MOD, the media twisted it as a coup.

Meanwhile the frontline didn't buckle in any way, shape or form.

The fighting spirit of Russians has not disappeared, so do not flatter yourself

They do have to fight and die knowing that the war was all to please Russian egos, though.

I do not care how the war,as long as it end

Prigozhin is a man now living on borrowed time. One thing Vlad values over everything else is loyalty and for whatever reason if sees you’re not that….

bass4funk

Prigozhin is a man now living on borrowed time. One thing Vlad values over everything else is loyalty and for whatever reason if sees you’re not that….

Agreed.

So is Putin.

Putin's pet hates are NATO and disloyalty. A very revengeful man.

JJE

Despite it being stated on Friday that it was a beef with the MOD, the media twisted it as a coup.

It was a coup of the MOD. Putin controls the MOD, even though Prigozhin never mentioned Putin. He was after Shoigu, and Gerasimov. That's what the media said.

Putin caved, gave up the fight and let Prigozhin off.

Well, this is all very confusing, isn't it. On Friday night Wagner were a rabble of murderous Nazi criminals, on Saturday night they were heroic freedom fighters and on Sunday night they retired to Belarus.

Never mind, at least we've got an impartial media that uses serious, evidence-based journalism without political bias to explain current events.

First Prigozhin made it clear he wasn't challenging Putin only the military leaders.

But besides that, if Prigozhin is actually let go after supposedly shooting down multiple helicopters, etc ...and nothing happens to him and that Putin just forgives and forgets then you believe in the eastern bunny.

If Prigozhin has an "accident" in the near future then it was real if not it was staged,

Prigozhin met with Putin 10 days before the start of this supposed uprising.

If nothing happens to him then this was staged in a failed attempt to get Ukraine to prematurely commit to a hastily decided full assault on the occupied areas.

But Ukraine didn't take the bait.

Prigozhin had 50,000 troops but only supposedly only took 25,000 with him, where are the other 25,000?

Putin just before this made a speech saying he now had 150,000 new troops that will be ready in the next week or two.

Suddenly this little show.

If Putin's new 150,000, Wagner's other 25,000 plus and Chechen are already in place and Ukraine bought this fake show as real they then would have most likely walked into a trap.

Seems Ukraine wasn't stupid, as soon as this started they stopped all operations sat back and waited

Pundits all over were saying it was a perfect chance for Ukraine to launch a full scale attack.

Seems the Ukrainians have a better understanding how Putin and Prigozhin are than the MSM pundits.

Only Time will tell but if nothing happens to Prigozhin then this was fake and a trick to get Ukraine to make a mistake.

I think it was staged and I think Ukraine handled it perfectly and didn't get sucked in!

Only Prigozhin went to Belarus. The "soldiers" of the Wagner Group were given immunity and offered places in the Russian military.

Yes, very confusing. RT and it's intellectual commenters even didn't know what to write. Wagner boss went from a hero to a CIA agent and traitorous "Jew" (the irony was not lost on me). I don't know what he is now that his sins we're forgiven.

Well, this is all very confusing, isn't it. On Friday night Wagner were a rabble of murderous Nazi criminals, on Saturday night they were heroic freedom fighters and on Sunday night they retired to Belarus.

Never mind, at least we've got an impartial media that uses serious, evidence-based journalism without political bias to explain current events.

even though Prigozhin never mentioned Putin.

Ah actually he mentioned Putin multiple times in all his speeches on camera saying he was not challenging him emphasized he supported Putin and was only going after the 2 guys at the top.

What MSM report and what was really said are very different.

Look around all Prigozhin's speeches are available by several different people on everything from YouTube to Rumble.

So fact check, he did mention he even directly addressed Putin pledging his loyalty.

Pretty humiliating weekend for Putin. Not only did Wagner capture Russian military facilities, they will get away with it without repercussion.

Did anyone here think that was possible before Friday?

Polonium's back on the menu! For Putin or for his "chef"?

I imagine the smart ones won't believe this, and will head for Belarus too.

Only Prigozhin went to Belarus. The "soldiers" of the Wagner Group were given immunity and offered places in the Russian military.

Antiquesaving

Prigozhin had 50,000 troops but only supposedly only took 25,000 with him, where are the other 25,000?

Dead.

Putin just before this made a speech saying he now had 150,000 new troops that will be ready in the next week or two.

Believe that if you will. I don't.

Antiquesaving - not disagreeing at all, as I have no idea if it was staged or not. I’m not sure Putin would go along with anything that questioned his leadership, and going along with that simply to try and lure Ukraine into an attack is a huge risk for him. Ultimately, I think he’s taken a big hit, staged or not.

the fuhrer's speech 

offensive/vulgar. 

and totally inaccurate on top of that.

To you Blacklabel. Those Russians in prison for holding up blank sheets of paper may not consider Putin the champion of freedom you seem to see him as.

Yes, the way he mentioned Putin was actually like he was talking about a small child. He said the war in Ukraine was all based on a lie that the Russian Minister of Defense spread because wanted a promotion (apparently Putin could not realize this himself...), and that Putin was deeply mistaken that Wagner were traitors. He's probably right.

Ah actually he mentioned Putin multiple times in all his speeches on camera saying he was not challenging him emphasized he supported Putin and was only going after the 2 guys at the top.

What MSM report and what was really said are very different.

Look around all Prigozhin's speeches are available by several different people on everything from YouTube to Rumble.

So fact check, he did mention he even directly addressed Putin pledging his loyalty.

Announced months ago, from the 1st of next month PMCs will be absorbed into the MOD.

Moving forward, contractors who refused to take part in the mutiny – and whole units did not – will be allowed to sign contracts with the MOD. Its apparent that most of the participants were unwittingly fooled into this misguided escapade and constitute a minority.

A column of Akhmat special forces (the Chechens) were moving north on Saturday and was poised to confront the ringleaders, who suddenly backed down.

Also, the authorities did raid the HQ in St. Petersburg, seizing boxed currency amounting to 47 million plus change.

The next chapter will be interesting: he will be on the northern border and 100-odd km from Kyiv.

Also, if it wasn’t staged, I agree Prigozhin should be watching his back, but if it was staged, Shoigu needs to be. This isn’t just something that happened in the last month. Prigozhin has been extremely critical for a long time. Offing Shoigu would make people really fear Putin again. I wonder if Shoigu is aware of that.

That’s all set into scene, a fake drama, a strategic chess move under military considerations. While you all laugh and see something mystical like a weakened Putin or a banned and deactivated Prigozhin, something virtual , that’s not even nearly there, they have now easily deployed a strongly forced militia only 100 kilometers north of Kiyiv, forming another potential and long front line. In addition, Prigozhin who has shown how easy it is to overrun some Russian regular forces, has even a chance now to get a grip on the recently deployed atomic weapons in Belarus, if he runs those depots only guarded by a few unskilled Belarus or Russian standard forces. No, that development is of no good, and you have now a stronger and more powerful axis Putin-Prigozhin. They in fact , and hidden or not, just cooperate and use each other like they always have done already before. Look at them again, they are in fact longtime intimate friends and blood brothers, with the same origin, history, ideology, goals, entourages.

Look at them again, they are in fact longtime intimate friends and blood brothers, with the same origin, history, ideology, goals, entourages.

How long was Putin incarcerated?

Haaa Nemui

Today 08:47 am JST

Antiquesaving - not disagreeing at all, as I have no idea if it was staged or not. I’m not sure Putin would go along with anything that questioned his leadership, and going along with that simply to try and lure Ukraine into an attack is a huge risk for him. Ultimately, I think he’s taken a big hit, staged or not

Think like a maniac!

If this was a staged thing and Ukraine had taken the bait.

In the end Putin would have gotten a quick victory, announced it was staged and called a genius.

The fact that Wagner was scheduled to be absorbed into the regular military, Prigozhin was going anyway.

So why not try this to get Ukraine to make a mistake!

"Well, this is all very confusing, isn't it. On Friday night Wagner were a rabble of murderous Nazi criminals, on Saturday night they were heroic freedom fighters and on Sunday night they retired to Belarus."

LOL, good one Alfie, pretty accurate description of it.

Is there any real military beside Wagner in Russia beside those that being used in parade?

Well, despite a number of Russian brass incompetent decisions over the last year , someone is still stopping the current Ukranian counter offensive so the answer must be, yes.

Antiquesaving

Think like a maniac!

If this was a staged thing and Ukraine had taken the bait.

This was anything but staged. The US knew that Wagner were going to challenge the MOD days earlier.

In the end Putin would have gotten a quick victory, announced it was staged and called a genius.

Putin comes out of this looking incredibly weak. That's not a thing that he would stage.

The fact that Wagner was scheduled to be absorbed into the regular military, Prigozhin was going anyway.

Now they are angry against the MOD. How well do you think they will work with MOD troops. Not well!

So why not try this to get Ukraine to make a mistake!

Nice conspiracy theory. I prefer facts.

June 24 07:08 pm JST Posted in: Putin vows to crush 'armed mutiny' after Wagner mercenaries seize southern Russian city See in context

I can't see how Prigozhin can possibly succeed. This will either end like Pugachev's rebellion or in a messy compromise.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

I was absolutely right as we now see, but 14 readers down-voted me! I think this is what happens when people become too emotionally invested in a particular outcome. It should be a lesson to all: just because you want to see the collapse of the Russian state and the dismemberment of the Russian Federation, it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The fact that Wagner was scheduled to be absorbed into the regular military, Prigozhin was going anyway.

So why not try this to get Ukraine to make a mistake!

For Prigozhin it makes sense. Not for Putin though.

I don’t know though. If it was a ruse, instead of Ukraine taking the bait, Putin took the hit. It really just makes him look foolish. Maniacal mind aside.

I was absolutely right as we now see, but 14 readers down-voted me!

Awww. I just gave you an upvote for getting something right. There there.

Never mind, at least we've got an impartial media that uses serious, evidence-based journalism without political bias to explain current events.

Thank goodness we've got the Grayzone etc. to give us the facts, right? :)

Haaa Nemui

Today 09:45 am JST

The fact that Wagner was scheduled to be absorbed into the regular military, Prigozhin was going anyway.

> So why not try this to get Ukraine to make a mistake!

> For Prigozhin it makes sense. Not for Putin though.

> I don’t know though. If it was a ruse, instead of Ukraine taking the bait, Putin took the hit. It really just makes him look foolish. Maniacal mind aside.

I agree, if a ruse it failed and does make Putin look bad, but as we know from the start Putin has done this type of mistake before.

He bet on Ukraine surrendering in February 2022 quickly, he has a tendency to shoot for risky things.

Had it worked he would look great, but like February 2022 he knows he has a solid grip on power so I don't rule out his tendency to take crazy risks and count on his grip on power to ride out the consequences.

We are talking about Putin here, not the most sane person in the world.

He is clearly a megalomaniac that sees his grip on power as unchallengeable.

So if anyone is crazy enough to try something this insane it would be Putin.

Yes, it's so brilliant that only a true believer can understand the brilliance of it, even after hearing the master plan "exposed".

That’s all set into scene, a fake drama, a strategic chess move under military considerations. While you all laugh and see something mystical like a weakened Putin or a banned and deactivated Prigozhin, something virtual , that’s not even nearly there, they have now easily deployed a strongly forced militia only 100 kilometers north of Kiyiv, forming another potential and long front line. In addition, Prigozhin who has shown how easy it is to overrun some Russian regular forces, has even a chance now to get a grip on the recently deployed atomic weapons in Belarus, if he runs those depots only guarded by a few unskilled Belarus or Russian standard forces. No, that development is of no good, and you have now a stronger and more powerful axis Putin-Prigozhin. They in fact , and hidden or not, just cooperate and use each other like they always have done already before. Look at them again, they are in fact longtime intimate friends and blood brothers, with the same origin, history, ideology, goals, entourages.

Yevgeniy Prigozhin gets away with what he gets away with because the Russian treasury depends on the foreign exchange his fighters earn for Russia through their control of gold mines and other mining and oil drilling operations in Africa. The revenues Wagner generates are critical. In addition Mr. Putin gets a cut of the profits from Wagners operations, laundered deniably through third party companies controlled by Yevgeniy Prigozhin. PMC Wagner has a bunch of associated companies involved in laundering the proceeds of the minerals they steal from Africa often through intermediaries in UAE. The gold, mostly from Central African Republic, replaces much revenue and banking reserves lost due to western sanctions. On top of that Wagner forces advance Russian interests in Africa without the cost associated with stationing Russian Army and Russian Air Force in those nations. Unlike a formal military, Wagner is a profit center.

In the short term the Russians can't afford to create power vacuums in places like Libya, CAR, Sudan, Mali, etc, by closing the doors on Wagner. The Libyan National Army relies heavily on Wagner and would probably collapse if they left. A lot of nations in Africa right now are re-evaluating the local balance of power with an eye on what opportunities might present themselves in the absence of Wagner forces. Russia needs something like Wagner operating abroad so my suspicion is that in time Wagner will get new leadership and a new name and Yevgeniy Prigozhin may have an encounter with polonium or something similar.

This was anything but staged. The US knew that Wagner were going to challenge the MOD days earlier.

Sure just like it knew about WMDs.

Until now the USA intelligence services failed miserably in multiple occasions.

So saying it knew anything other than what the times is after looking at the clock is pushing it.

This was anything but staged. The US knew that Wagner were going to challenge the MOD days earlier.

The problem with the US intelligence services and UK they are 9 out of 10 times making evaluations based on politics not facts.

Now if Mossad said it I would be more inclined to believe it as it tends to go more on Facts and reality than politics or what the administration wants to hear.

He is clearly a megalomaniac that sees his grip on power as unchallengeable.

Oh no question. Actually, my very first comment on this whole issue was about not trusting Wagner on this. So yeah, I think it could have been staged, but I think it’s just as likely that it wasn’t, and as you said, he’s clearly a megalomaniac, so I think if it’s real Prigozhin is in trouble, if not, Shoigu is.

If this was real, asked yourselves this:

Would Prigozhin go into exile in a place that is run by another ruthless dictator and closest friend of Putin?

Putin is a hero. He can stop this in one day. In a country called USA, Americans invaded the center of politics, when Biden supposed won. The trials and imprisonments are ongoing, with one dude being sentenced to almost his lifetime when he was in a totally different state.

How can America be lower than a Christian country that discrimates against gay people, but discrimination against women’s rights of their own body. 51% of US population.

putin, although I dislike, is the man! No dementia.

Well, this is all very confusing, isn't it. On Friday night Wagner were a rabble of murderous Nazi criminals, on Saturday night they were heroic freedom fighters and on Sunday night they retired to Belarus.

Yeah, the world is confusing if you just make stuff up. Where has anyone in the media used language describing Wagner as "heroic freedom fighters" or anything even remotely resembling that? Most of the reporting I've seen described it as a "mutiny", "coup attempt", "armed insurrection" or something similar, nobody has said Wagner is fighting for anyone's "freedom".

The only positive things that I've seen said about Wagner is:

A) Prighozin has been unusually candid in calling out many of the Kremlin's lies about the war, particularly in that interview the day before he rebelled;

B) Wagner turning on the MOD has probably further complicated Russia's war effort, which is a good thing.

C) Prighozin has deeply embarassed Putin in a way that is likely to undermine his position, also a good thing.

These all seem fair points, based in fact, to me.

Haaa Nemui

Today 10:10 am JST

He is clearly a megalomaniac that sees his grip on power as unchallengeable.

> Oh no question. Actually, my very first comment on this whole issue was about not trusting Wagner on this. So yeah, I think it could have been staged, but I think it’s just as likely that it wasn’t, and as you said, he’s clearly a megalomaniac, so I think if it’s real Prigozhin is in trouble, if not, Shoigu is.

We can speculate all we want but we will know eventually.

If Prigozhin has an unfortunate " accident" in the coming few months, then we will know it was real.

If nothing happens to him or he is "pardoned" and returns in some form as a Wagner-esk leader of consultant, then we will know it was staged.

There is no way Putin is actually going to let him off if this was real because the next time it will be one or both of the present generals incharge.

Would Prigozhin go into exile in a place that is run by another ruthless dictator and closest friend of Putin?

I don’t think Prigozhin would have really had a choice. Putin wouldn’t have wanted fighting in Russia between Russians and that was probably the main point of the negotiations. It was Lukashenko who made that offer and Putin allowed it to happen. That’s if this was real. If it wasn’t real, Prigozhin has exiled himself.

Yep, it’s all speculation at this point.

If Putin's goal were to get Wagner into Belarus....why not just reach an agreement to send them there? Instead he says, "Wait, no, let's add in a situation where I get humiliated first"?

Granted I have no idea what really happened, but let's just say I'll shy away from scenarios that make no sense, like dictators actively engaging in situations that look like they've lost all control.

And the "this was part of Putin's plan all along" nutcases are at it again.....

Antiquesaving

This was anything but staged. The US knew that Wagner were going to challenge the MOD days earlier.

The problem with the US intelligence services and UK they are 9 out of 10 times making evaluations based on politics not facts.

That is completely unfounded. Politics != intelligence. Also, it well known the the US has great intelligence in Russia and Ukraine.

In any case, they were right.

The man, PUTAin, will be gone, sooner than later!

Others are waiting to take over - whether for better or worse ... who really knows.

I'm only worried that those Wagnerites, under what's his name again, will try to establish a second front coming from Belarus. That dictator over there (yet another one) would definitely support that.

Ukraine prevails!

Putin is very afraid of Prigozhin. He is even afraid of arresting him because he knows his country's people will side with Prigozhin. And Prigozhin will become a hero. And if that happens Putin had better make arrangements with his friend Lukashenko to offer him a place to stay in Belorus because after 23 years Russians will have become tired of looking at his face and listening to his voice for 23 years. Prigozhin could free Navalny make him his Vice President. Or the other way round: Navalny: President of Russia, assisted by Vice President Prigozhin.

@RodneyToday 11:45 am JST

Irrelevant because Russia meets all of the criteria for fascism today:

Ultranationalism

Dictatorship

Militarism

War of Aggression

i see no news abt UA spring advances.

well it seems that Prigozhin did not help as expected?

....

Remember that game called Break the Ice? People take turns knocking plastic cubes of ice while trying not to knock the guy in. Well, that guy who's sitting in the middle waiting to fall through it should be replaced with a character who looks like Putin.

Putin may still survive, but he's been severely weakened and he's damaged goods now. Countries like China must be re-evaluating their relationship with him right now.