U.S. intelligence report on COVID-19 origins rejects some points raised by lab leak theory proponents

Did 51 intelligence officials write a letter telling us COVID was Russian disinformation?

like we can trust “US intelligence officials” any more. Come on man.

US intelligence…oxymoron much!!!

like we can trust “US intelligence officials” any more

Admirable patriotism.

So I just have to accept whatever narrative a bunch of unelected partisan and corrupt government employees say once it’s been proven they lie to the people?

So I just have to accept whatever narrative a bunch of unelected partisan and corrupt government employees say once it’s been proven they lie to the people?

I’d use the non-partisan, rigorous and exacting standards you use to reach your other opinions.

Blacklabel: So I just have to accept whatever narrative a bunch of unelected partisan and corrupt government employees say once it’s been proven they lie to the people?

What would happen if you were wrong about everything? Would you not be special anymore?

Spy agencies are not exactly scientific authorities, so what is the point of them trying to decide something that requires scientific expertise? Pretending that cold-like symptoms in the middle of the respiratory disease season somehow means something makes absolutely no sense, that would "prove" every other building in the area with more than 10 people was also the origin.

Actual experts have published very strong scientific arguments that prove the lab leak origin is not realistically possible.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

Our analyses indicate that the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 occurred through the live wildlife trade in China and show that the Huanan market was the epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic.

As with other coronaviruses, SARS-CoV-2 emergence likely resulted from multiple zoonotic events.

Any "report" ignoring the evidence presented is just political games and can be ignored without problems.

Hilarious.

the only relevant thing is a yes or no question.

does US intelligence consistently lie to the American people?

yea they do and I have many examples as proof.

I first learned about COVID in December in 2019 in yahoo,it actually was not being covered up,I also learned about the remedies of by one of the most informative doctors in America at Medcram

If you only understood how the sequencing of variants and molecular evolution worked, you might have a different opinion. But, alas, you can only shoot messengers and look for conspiracies,

Blacklabel

So I just have to accept whatever narrative a bunch of unelected partisan and corrupt government employees say once it’s been proven they lie to the people?

If you only understood how the sequencing of variants and molecular evolution worked, 

And you do?

please extrapolate if so.

what is US intelligence missing/hiding that they won’t give a firm answer either way?

I think they won’t say natural because that’s a provable lie. They won’t say lab because that’s what the orange goblin said and they have to disagree with him at any cost.

so they can (but won’t) answer either way.

So what’s your opinion then and why do you think so and based on what evidence?

So what’s your opinion then and why do you think so and based on what evidence?

Well, what's your evidence? Quick to make claims, and quick to accuse others, but short on evidence.

If you and I were on the same level of education, sure, we could talk about it. 

We are. Keep talking.

Blacklabel.,,,

You read this (https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/14/2/407) and this (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-023-00878-2), and then we can start talking.

Actual experts have published very strong scientific arguments that prove the lab leak origin is not realistically possible.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8337

Two studies don't "prove" anything. Even the "experts" who wrote those articles would tell you that.

Even in the beginning of one of those articles, we see these words:

The precise events surrounding virus spillover will always be clouded, but all of the circumstantial evidence so far points to more than one zoonotic event occurring in Huanan market in Wuhan, China

I'm not sure how "prove" works with an article that itself says the precise causes "will always be clouded" and references "circumstantial evidence."

And in the abstract, we see this:

Although there is insufficient evidence to define upstream events, and exact circumstances remain obscure, our analyses indicate ...

Hmmm ... "insufficient evidence to define upstream events" ... "exact circumstances remain obscure" ... not sure how these words align with a claim that these articles "prove" anything.

I suggest being careful in throwing the word "prove" around.

I should have said this in the prior post.

Blacklabel, if you want to prove a conspiracy, you have to use the scientific evidence which proves there was a lab leak and disprove the alternative hypotheses (recombination, etc). So, please do your best to try to understand the articles I posted above,

Just pointing your finger and saying "Like you trust the (insert target group here)" is worth nothing.

What articles? You posted other peoples names claiming you are an expert.

is one of those books yours or are you one of those people?

iraira Today  05:10 pm JST

Just pointing your finger and saying "Like you trust the (insert target group here)" is worth nothing.

Posting two articles and calling it "proof," as you have done -- even when the articles themselves admit that the precise causes of the COVID outbreak are not fully clear -- is worth just as much.

And if your sources are so airtight why don’t the intelligence agencies use them to say it WAS natural and then not only was it NOT a lab but with 100% certainty that it COULD NOT BE a lab leak?

US intelligence didn’t read the book you read? Are they supposedly less educated than you too?

iraira Today  05:10 pm JST

So, please do your best to try to understand the articles I posted above

You too.

Please do your best to try to understand, as the articles say quite plainly at their very beginning, that ultimately the exact causes of the COVID outbreak are not fully clear.

Also please do your best to understand that no article, even peer-reviewed ones in publications like Science, never "prove" anything. As you claimed.

Any grad-school professor would tell you that.

Even the people who wrote the articles you cited would tell you that.

Posting two articles and calling it "proof," as you have done -- even when the articles themselves admit that the precise causes of the COVID outbreak are not fully clear -- is worth just as much.

Posting two articles and calling it proof, is far, far more proof than either your or Black have provided. Keep going.

Blacklabel,

Those are books which make up generally first year graduate studies in evolution, ecology and population genetics. So much for being on the same level.

An understanding of the concepts presented in those books along with the ability to distinguish artefacts (GXE interaction, maternal effects, unintended selection pressures, lack of replication, etc) which confound results obtained through experimentation is essential before you could look at data or primary publications and make a reasonable determination of the robustness of the results.

Based....you didn't read what I wrote. I never said they were proof of anything. They are both decent review articles of current findings culled from numerous molecular studies. They are useful in terms of understanding the molecular data by which the various origin hypotheses are debated.

Based

iraira Today  05:10 pm JST

Just pointing your finger and saying "Like you trust the (insert target group here)" is worth nothing.

Posting two articles and calling it "proof," as you have done -- even when the articles themselves admit that the precise causes of the COVID outbreak are not fully clear -- is worth just as much.

I mean all they had to do to solve this multi year worldwide mystery that no one could definitively solve was to ask a random guy on Japan Today with a random dissertation long ago that relates to COVID-(20)19.

Who knew?!

And if your sources are so airtight 

And what are your sources? Pretty selfish of you to keep the truth from us all.

 I never said they were proof of anything. 

whaaaaaat? Then who cares if they don’t prove you right or me wrong?

Better than being the random toothless ivermectin conspiracy theorist.

Blacklabel

I mean all they had to do to solve this multi year worldwide mystery that no one could definitively solve was to ask a random guy on Japan Today with a random dissertation long ago that relates to COVID-(20)19.

Who knew?!

both are true.

Source, please.

intelligence won’t say either way what happened: source= this article

lol In other words, you've got nothing.

Trump was in charge during the worse part of the covid.

intelligence lies: source= the famous laptop and many many others back to WMD time and before.

Ah totally. So, if you lie once, it means everything you say is a lie. Brilliant.

lol In other words, you've got nothing.

No I’ve got that intelligence can’t say either way.

4 say natural and 2 say lab.

that’s not “nothing”

So, if you lie once, it means everything you say is a lie. Brilliant.

That’s 2 lies not “once” that would be “twice”.

and I said “and many more”.

so I need to list them all? I don’t have time there are sooooo many more.

.

That’s 2 lies not “once” that would be “twice”.

Oh, okay, so if you lie two times that means you can't be trusted again? Black, do you not think you've lied more than two times in your life? Come on now, this is very silly. It's just a pathetic attempt to discredit people, without actually trying to address what you think is actually incorrect with what they've said. So what did they actually get wrong?

The article is about the origins of covid, so why a pic of vaxxes?

Regarding the article, I never trust anything US "intelligence" says.

So what did they actually get wrong?

COVID origins, the laptop, Chinese balloon, WMD, Russia collusion, Iran nuclear program and many many more.

It’s simply wrong that they can’t/won’t tell us which one it is.

Because they DO know but won’t say.

the other guy said it’s obvious it’s natural. So why won’t they announce that if that is true?

It’s simply wrong that they can’t/won’t tell us which one it is.

In other words, you can't actually explain how their conclusion is wrong. It just is. Got it.