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kuchikomi

Who has first claim to the priority seats on public transport?

36 Comments

Japan's first "Silver Seats" for the elderly, expectant mothers, the handicapped, etc, were introduced by the now-defunct Japan National Railways (JNR) on September 15, 1973 (a national holiday now known as Respect for the Aged Day).

First to implement them were rapid trains on the Chuo Line in Tokyo and on certain JNR lines in Osaka. Around the same time, private railways also began successive introductions of priority seats under various names.

Writing in his weekly "Tenka no Boron" (Unscrupulous ideas) column in Yukan Fuji (July 20), veteran magazine editor Kazuyoshi Hanada considers the proper utilization of these priority seats.

Hanada's age is relevant to this discussion, since he was born in September 1942 -- making him nearly 81 years old. He nonetheless is still active in the publishing field, putting out a conservative monthly magazine called Hanada.

Hanada faces a 45-minute commute to his office in Jimbocho, Chiyoda Ward, aboard the Denentoshi Line and Tokyo Metro Hanzomon line. 

Hanada was inspired to take up the current topic after seeing a headline in the Asahi Shimbun newspaper that read, "Is it wrong to sit in an unoccupied priority seat?"

The debate was initially kindled by Georgia's ambassador to Japan, Teimuraz Lezhava, who tweeted, "It's regrettable that people should use such seats."

Ambassador Lezhava's tweet generated a lot of comments, including many negative ones, and in response, the ambassador posted, "I received a warning about sitting in the priority seat. I say this: Let's stop unnecessary pressure without reason, as it leads to a society that is difficult to live in.

"There is nothing wrong with sitting in an empty seat," he explained, insisting, "What is important is the spirit of taking the initiative to give up [the seat] when someone in need comes along. My wife has never had to give up her priority seat when she was pregnant or with an infant. So I don't understand why I, who am not bothering anyone by sitting in the priority seat, should be warned.

He added, "I don't think it's right to impose strange social rules and inorganic ideas on people who are unable to pay attention to others, which is the 'natural' thing for human beings."

Hanada then refers to a recent internet survey conducted by the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. The survey, which questioned 985 individuals aged 20 and over, asked if they habitually give up their seats to a person who appears more deserving. To this, 57.7% said they often offer their seats, and 23.9% said they do it at least occasionally, for a total of around 80%.

From observations during his daily commute, however, Hanada believes these responses do not reflect reality.

"Three young people were occupying the priority seats," Hanada recollects. "I stood in front of them, reading a book. Beside me was an older gentleman who, from the way he weaved and staggered, appeared to have consumed quite a bit of alcohol. He was so inebriated he clung to the strap with both hands."

The three youths poked at their smartphones or dozed in turn, completely oblivious to Hanada and the inebriated elderly gentleman.

Then suddenly, the gentleman made a choking noise upon which he regurgitated an impressive volume of vomit. Of course the three youths were in the line of fire, so to speak.

"The scene struck me as so funny, I had to restrain myself from laughing out loud," Hanada wrote.

"If the youngsters had cursed at the elderly man or attacked him, I might have felt the need to intervene in his defense; but when the three merely stood up and disembarked from the train at the next station, I gave a sigh of relief.

"Basically I had to accept that it was none of my business," Hanada reflects. ”Although actually I have another suggestion in mind." He concludes the column by inexplicably leaving the suggestion unsaid.

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36 Comments
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Then suddenly, the gentleman made a choking noise upon which he regurgitated an impressive volume of vomit. Of course the three youths were in the line of fire, so to speak.

Legendary. Probably no-one wanted any of those seats (or the immediate floor space) after that, deserving or not.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

The one that needs it the most. I'm elderly 70+ so I will use the priority seat. If a pregnant woman appears I will offer it to her. Or a young person on crutches. An elderly person is in more need than me. People offer me their seats many times. Mostly common sense.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

I don’t even understand that discussion. When we were young, we were still educated in school and by parents to make place or give a seat to elderly, pregnant women, wheelchair or otherwise visible disabled people etc. In practice a very few seats were later declared priority seats, but in practice EVERY seat was a priority seat if needed. If you ask me, it’s only a problem of manners, behavior and education.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"I don’t even understand that discussion. When we were young, we were still educated in school and by parents to make place or give a seat to elderly, pregnant women, wheelchair or otherwise visible disabled people etc. "

Absolutely.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Being a veteran magazine editor, Hanada must certainly be aware that there is scant public discussion about priority seating on trains and buses. So he deserves applause for bringing it up. It's interesting that he mentions the fact that foreign diplomats ride the Tokyo subways and chose to comment on them via Twitter. Kudos to the Georgian ambassador, Yukan Fuji, Hanada and Kuchikomi for bringing this topic to our attention!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

There are too many old people to take this seriously anymore. They need to fight for seats like the rest of us or stay home. Pregnant women on the other hand are rare as diamonds and should be put on a pedestal.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Japan= first come, first swerved.

Pregnant mother or with small babies are seen as a nuisance here.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Pregnant mother or with small babies are seen as a nuisance here.

I wonder where you picked up that misconception. It is certainly not the case in our neck of the concrete jungle: Pregnant women, disabled and old people get offered seats -- with the caveat that it's actually not always possible to offer someone a seat when the train is packed.

On a related note, I wish other countries had maternity badges and help marks, they really do work.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I am always surprised when a young teenager offers their seat.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Actually, I give up my seat whether it's a priority one or not, if someone more needy needs it.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I won't be buying Hanada for any insight into anything. Looks like the usual, "my impressions and an anecdote regarding ...." And, yes, it is fine to sit in the silver seats if they are unoccupied and vacate them if they are needed.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

If you aren't one of the priority people, you shouldn't ever sit in the last open priority seat. Many people have invisible disabilities and illnesses that make it hard to stand, but aren't apparent visually. Of course someone else may take that last seat, but that makes that person the a$$hole.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Heh, I got downvoted for that. Someone clearly feels entitlement over the disabled!

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Although I can have the priority seat I will give it up for someone more in need.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The assumption that a woman is pregnant carries risk. The rule is that you never mention or assume a woman is pregnant until a baby is exiting the birth canal. All it takes is one event where the woman is aghast because she's not pregnant, she's just has a big stomach.

Oh, wait. I forgot that men can be pregnant now. Should we assume a man with a pot belly is pregnant and offer a seat? It's too confusing. Just pretend you're asleep.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The assumption that a woman is pregnant carries risk.

You don't have to assume. They wear tags in Japan on their purses/bags so you can see it, and don't need to make assumptions.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

One time coming back on a S-Rapid train from Osaka to Kobe which was very full. A young foreign mother with three children, one in a pram, boarded. No one seemed to notice she was also blind. I went into action and created a safe space for her and her children on the side near the window. I forced the other passengers to move and gave them very stern looks.

We chatted until she disembarked at Ashiya. She thanked me for my compassion.

How can people be so blind to the needs of others?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

StrangerlandToday  12:42 pm JST

The assumption that a woman is pregnant carries risk. 

You don't have to assume. They wear tags in Japan on their purses/bags so you can see it, and don't need to make assumptions.[sic]

I’m surprised that as a scientist, you would state this as a declarative fact.

Do you have some data to validate it? What is the percentage? Is it regional? Is it age related? What is the n number?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Do you have some data to validate it? What is the percentage? Is it regional? Is it age related? What is the n number?

The government provides tags to women. They are given out at the various town halls and offices in Japan, and they are widely known by the public.

Some things are accepted truth, and you need to prove that thing is wrong if you want to claim otherwise. Other things are not known as truth, so you have to prove those things exist if you want to claim they do.

Maternity tags are one of those things that are accepted truth. They are everywhere in Japan. Do you need me to prove the sky is blue too?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

OK, so no data to validate that they wear them.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

OK, so no data to validate that they wear them.

According to this 2016 survey, around 57.6% of women wore the maternity mark during pregnancy. Don’t if the percentages in the survey have changed significantly since.

https://econte.co.jp/works/maternity/

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Do you have some data to validate it?

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/file/06-Seisakujouhou-11900000-Koyoukintoujidoukateikyoku/0000154097_1.pdf

What is the percentage?

According to the quoted 2013 survey: 93.5% know about them, 52.3% wear them.

What is the n number?

n=5781

3 ( +3 / -0 )

OK, so no data to validate that they wear them.

According to this 2016 survey, around 57.6% of women wore the maternity mark during pregnancy. Don’t if the percentages in the survey have changed significantly since.

https://econte.co.jp/works/maternity/

And:

According to the quoted 2013 survey: 93.5% know about them, 52.3% wear them.

What is the n number?

n=5781

Remember when I said this was a known thing?

Remember how I really, really know Japan better than the overwhelming majority of posters on this site?

Remember how I said you don't need to assume, because the women in Japan wear the tags?

Remember how I knew what I was talking about, again, and as almost always?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Saying women in Japan wear them implies they all wear them. Less than 60% wear them, according to those surveys. Saying some women wear them is probably a better way to express it. I’m curious, what kind of scientist are you, Strangerland?

I think the humor of the comment was a little too subtle for you.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Saying women in Japan wear them implies they all wear them. Less than 60% wear them, according to those surveys. Saying some women wear them is probably a better way to express it.

Yeah, and the women who don't feel they need the priority seats are the ones who aren't likely to wear them. Remember, more than 9/10 know about them. And the whole point of this was that assuming women are pregnant carries a risk. As I pointed out, you don't need to assume in Japan. The ones who want you to know they are pregnant, will make it known. And you should get out of your seat for them.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I think the humor of the comment was a little too subtle for you.

No, I saw you were trying to be funny.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Saying women in Japan wear them implies they all wear them

You are arguing an "all or none" presupposition for a generic plural noun phrase with no determiner. While your statement is certainly true if all pregnant women wear them, one would hesitate to say it is false if not all pregnant women do. The question "Do women in Japan wear them?" cannot naturally be answered by "no" simply on the grounds that some do not. The only question you can answer on those grounds is "Do all women in Japan wear them?", which offers the possible negation that not all women do, leaving room for disagreement between women about the matter.

Although I admire the lengths you are going to just to avoid admitting a misconception, I'm not entirely sure a semantic argument offers you a graceful exit.

what kind of scientist are you

I believe at this point you owe the answer to this question yourself.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I am always surprised when a young teenager offers their seat.

On the bus??!!!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

The ones who want you to know they are pregnant, will make it known. And you should get out of your seat for them.

Also according to that survey, one in ten women wearing the mark experienced some kind of verbal or physical attack while out and about. Sadly, it seems wearing the mark itself carries an element of risk and doesn’t guarantee a pregnant woman common courtesy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Also according to that survey, one in ten women wearing the mark experienced some kind of verbal or physical attack while out and about.

You're reading it in the harshest way possible. The question was "Have you ever felt unconfortable (lit. unpleasant thoughts) or unsafe (lit. in danger) when wearing the maternity mark?", it does not ask for the actual experience of an "attack". Those 9.7% included women reporting that they experienced the discomfort of being stared at. I agree though that the two reports of almost, or actually getting hit in the stomach are a bit unsettling.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You're reading it in the harshest way possible. The question was "Have you ever felt unconfortable (lit. unpleasant thoughts) or unsafe (lit. in danger) when wearing the maternity mark?", it does not ask for the actual experience of an "attack". Those 9.7% included women reporting that they experienced the discomfort of being stared at.

You're right. Thanks for correcting!

I agree though that the two reports of almost, or actually getting hit in the stomach are a bit unsettling.

Yeah, very unsettling. Then again, tutting a pregnant woman for "walking too slow" or harassing with questions like "Are you really pregnant?" are bad enough already, and show some very unfortunate attitudes out there.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Although I admire the lengths you are going to just to avoid admitting a misconception, I'm not entirely sure a semantic argument offers you a graceful exit.

The point someone tried to make was that you have to be careful to not assume a woman isn't pregnant; I pointed out, and then supported my assertion, that you don't need to assume in Japan.

No semantics there mate.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

No semantics there mate.

My reply wasn't directed at you, but rather at Peter. And I realize I should have referenced that more clearly, sorry for the confusion.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Anyone who purchased a ticket has a right to sit where they please.

Even if someone is not sitting in a silver seat, they should offer their seat to someone in need.

But there is no law to do so.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Anyone who purchased a ticket has a right to sit where they please.

Sure. People have the right to be a$$holes. But no one likes people like that, cause they are losers, and they don't have very full and happy lives. So they are allowed to be a$$holes, but then they get to be lonely and pathetic.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I always give up my seat to an old codger, obviously pregnant women or one with a baby or toddler. Mind you I usually have to insist and actually get out of the seat then they are always very grateful and sometimes may talk to me a little.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

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